# NBA Season 2015 - 2016 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 30, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077 "2015-09-30T20:37:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/422 "2016-06-22T15:57:23Z")
Can he be a frontrunner if he, uh, is the front? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/423 "2016-06-22T15:59:20Z")
> [@cg16](#): > > Lebron was only leaving if he couldn’t deliver a title within two years. That;s why he only signed a 2 year deal when he came back to Cleveland. So now that they won it’s no reason for him to leave again. He is what you call a certified front runner which is why so many people hate him. The city pissed all over him when he left for not staying and winning them a championship, and they were in no shape to win a championship when he decided to come back and try to do it. Going back there was literally the least frontrunning thing he could have possibly done. What I’m saying is, that’s a stupid criticism. ---
**Author:** ![cg16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@cg16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cg16)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/424 "2016-06-22T16:00:44Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Can he be a frontrunner if he, uh, is the front? I can’t respect a player who jumps ship after losing in the playoffs. The fact that he had to leave Cleveland first and then Miami to get three rings doesn’t make him look at that great. ---
**Author:** ![cg16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@cg16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cg16)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/425 "2016-06-22T16:04:07Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > The city pissed all over him when he left for not staying and winning them a championship, and they were in no shape to win a championship when he decided to come back and try to do it. Going back there was literally the least frontrunning thing he could have possibly done. > > What I’m saying is, that’s a stupid criticism. To me he will never be in the same category as Bird, Isiah, Kobe, Magic, and Duncan because they all stayed with their teams after losing in the Finals Bird lost 85 finals and came back to win 86 finals magic lost 84 finals and came back to win 85 finals isiah lost 88 finals and came back to win 89 finals kobe lost 08 finals and came back to win 09 finals duncan lost 13 finals and came back to win 14 finals Lebron lost the ECF in 10 and left Lebron lost the 14 finals and left ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/426 "2016-06-22T16:12:24Z")
Lost in 2011 and left. Wait, either left or won two in a row, can’t remember. Lost in 2015 and left. Wait, either left or won the next one. Shit I’m bad at this. It’s almost like when you’re in the Finals every year, everything you do happens after you’re in the Finals. ---
**Author:** ![cg16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@cg16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cg16)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/427 "2016-06-22T16:13:59Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Lost in 2011 and left. Wait, either left or won two in a row, can’t remember. > > Lost in 2015 and left. Wait, either left or won the next one. Shit I’m bad at this. It’s almost like when you’re in the Finals every year, everything you do happens after you’re in the Finals. 2011 he was under contract 2015 he was under contract Believe me if he would have left this year too if GS had won ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/428 "2016-06-22T16:16:30Z")
I may be the only one, but I don’t think Cleveland (the city) deserved anything. They took great pleasure in pissing on Lebron when he left. Fans and owners love bringing up loyalty for the players they want to keep, funny that loyalty didn’t extend to Anderson Varajao. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/429 "2016-06-22T16:19:51Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > From what I gather from nba forums, GS fans didn’t exist until about 2013. I wouldn’t go by NBA forums. As a young college student a few decades ago I worked as a ticket taker at Oracle and the team generally sold well when even they were god-awful ( it also helps a little that Oracle isn’t all that big ). In 2010 they averaged a little over 18,000 fans a game for a 26-56 team ;). Now I wasn’t one of them :D. The modern Warriors style of play has pulled me back into the NBA after a long period of disinterest. But a dedicated fan base has certainly existed for quite awhile, aside from the normal legion of bandwagon-jumpers. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/430 "2016-06-22T16:21:05Z")
No one took pleasure in pissing on LeBron, they felt betrayed and heartbroken in a way that there’s not really any sort of analogy for in the rest of the US sports world. Someone who was one of us, who was our best chance, decided to ditch us for somewhere easier and flashier. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/431 "2016-06-22T16:27:36Z")
> [@cg16](#): > > To me he will never be in the same category as Bird, Isiah, Kobe, Magic, and Duncan because they all stayed with their teams after losing in the Finals > > Bird lost 85 finals and came back to win 86 finals > magic lost 84 finals and came back to win 85 finals > isiah lost 88 finals and came back to win 89 finals > kobe lost 08 finals and came back to win 09 finals > duncan lost 13 finals and came back to win 14 finals > Lebron lost the ECF in 10 and left > Lebron lost the 14 finals and left Why the hell should Lebron waste his career dragging teams of scrubs into the finals every year for no return? Every team you listed had another hall of fame level talent besides the star. I can almost guarantee if you asked any player whether he’d prefer a ring to spending his career in one city, he’d pick the ring. And none of this considers any of the financial incentives those players were working with. ---
**Author:** ![cg16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@cg16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cg16)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/432 "2016-06-22T16:29:32Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > Why the hell should Lebron waste his career dragging teams of scrubs into the finals every year for no return? > > Every team you listed had another hall of fame level talent besides the star. I can almost guarantee if you asked any player whether he’d prefer a ring to spending his career in one city, he’d pick the ring. > > And none of this considers any of the financial incentives those players were working with. But Isiah, Bird, Kobe, and duncan allowed the front office to build around them ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/433 "2016-06-22T16:34:04Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > No one took pleasure in pissing on LeBron, they felt betrayed and heartbroken in a way that there’s not really any sort of analogy for in the rest of the US sports world. Someone who was one of us, who was our best chance, decided to ditch us for somewhere easier and flashier. I get some of that, I really do, still, some of the things that were said were beyond reason. He’s a basketball player not property. And a lot of the vitriol was fed by the scumbag owner and others with financial incentives. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/434 "2016-06-22T16:40:57Z")
Didn’t the Cavs have the worst record in the NBA each of the 4 years LeBron was in Miami? He comes back and they go to the finals and then win the finals. The two years Jordan was gone, the Bulls were still a playoff team. Could Jordan have gone to the mid 90s Washington Bullets or 76ers and made them instant contenders? Maybe, but we’ll obviously never know. I’m not saying LeBron is greater than Jordan, but I think it’s closer than people give LeBron credit for. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/435 "2016-06-22T17:02:01Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > No one took pleasure in pissing on LeBron, they felt betrayed and heartbroken in a way that there’s not really any sort of analogy for in the rest of the US sports world. Someone who was one of us, who was our best chance, decided to ditch us for somewhere easier and flashier. > [@](#): > > Dear Cleveland, All Of Northeast Ohio and Cleveland Cavaliers Supporters Wherever You May Be Tonight; > > As you now know, our former hero, who grew up in the very region that he deserted this evening, is no longer a Cleveland Cavalier. > > This was announced with a several day, narcissistic, self-promotional build-up culminating with a national TV special of his “decision” unlike anything ever “witnessed” in the history of sports and probably the history of entertainment. > > Clearly, this is bitterly disappointing to all of us. > > The good news is that the ownership team and the rest of the hard-working, loyal, and driven staff over here at your hometown Cavaliers have not betrayed you nor NEVER will betray you. > > There is so much more to tell you about the events of the recent past and our more than exciting future. Over the next several days and weeks, we will be communicating much of that to you. > > You simply don’t deserve this kind of cowardly betrayal. > > You have given so much and deserve so much more. > > In the meantime, I want to make one statement to you tonight: > > “I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE THAT THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS WILL WIN AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE SELF-TITLED FORMER ‘KING’ WINS ONE” > > You can take it to the bank. > > If you thought we were motivated before tonight to bring the hardware to Cleveland, I can tell you that this shameful display of selfishness and betrayal by one of our very own has shifted our “motivation” to previously unknown and previously never experienced levels. > > Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there. > > Sorry, but that’s simply not how it works. > > This shocking act of disloyalty from our home grown “chosen one” sends the exact opposite lesson of what we would want our children to learn. And “who” we would want them to grow-up to become. > > But the good news is that this heartless and callous action can only serve as the antidote to the so-called “curse” on Cleveland, Ohio. > > The self-declared former “King” will be taking the “curse” with him down south. And until he does “right” by Cleveland and Ohio, James (and the town where he plays) will unfortunately own this dreaded spell and bad karma. > > Just watch. > > Sleep well, Cleveland. > > Tomorrow is a new and much brighter day… > > I PROMISE you that our energy, focus, capital, knowledge and experience will be directed at one thing and one thing only: > > DELIVERING YOU the championship you have long deserved and is long overdue… > > Dan Gilbert > > Majority Owner And this is a professional, speaking publicly to the fans. What the fans said was worse. They pissed all over him and had no justification for it. They didn’t deserve to have LeBron come back, really. And let’s be honest, you’re telling me these people were Cavs fans whether or not LeBron was on the team? They wanted something flashy or they didn’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/436 "2016-06-22T17:09:13Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > …And a lot of the vitriol was fed by the scumbag owner and others with financial incentives. I don’t think Gilbert would have gone so rage-monster without The Decision, even considering everything he did to make James happy just to have him bail. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/437 "2016-06-22T17:10:53Z")
I don’t think what you posted contradicts what I said. I wasn’t saying no one said anything bad about him, but because it came from a place of feeling betrayed, rather than just piling on hatred on a guy. Like I said, I don’t think there’s an analog for that situation in all of US sports that I’m aware of. A lot of hope and loved was poured into LeBron because Cleveland finally had one of the premier athletes in the world, and he was one of our own, grew up suffering as we did, part of the whole experience. And we were lucky enough to get him by winning the lottery and he was everything he was hyped to be - it felt like destiny. There are very few cities that identify with an athlete to that level that I don’t even know how to come up with an analogy. LeBron inspired more fanatical fandom in Cleveland than, say, Brett Favre in Green Bay, who is the best analogue I can think of in terms of how much a city is identified with a player. Except Green Bay didn’t have a long history of being a cursed sports city, a city that was the butt of a lot of jokes, a city with long suffering but fanatical fans. And Brett Favre wasn’t The Chosen One who grew up on the Streets of Green Bay hoping that one day he would get the chance to play for them and save them from it all. I think it’s hard for an outsider to understand. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/438 "2016-06-22T17:18:11Z")
The reporter on the news feeds say the crowd is estimated in the 800k-1m range. One of the reporters speculated that that might make it the biggest sports victory parade there has ever been, but I have no idea if that’s anywhere near being true. It’s gotta be the highest ratio of market size to parade attendees, certainly. How big do these things usually run? ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/439 "2016-06-22T17:24:57Z")
Kansas City just estimated their WS parade last fall at 800K, and that’s pretty much the same market size as Cleveland. The first Sox parade in '04 was apparently estimated at 3 million from what I can Google up. No idea if that’s completely accurate, but given that Boston is about 2.5 times the market size and that particular championship was another special case, it seems in line. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/440 "2016-06-22T17:27:44Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The reporter on the news feeds say the crowd is estimated in the 800k-1m range. One of the reporters speculated that that might make it the biggest sports victory parade there has ever been, but I have no idea if that’s anywhere near being true. It’s gotta be the highest ratio of market size to parade attendees, certainly. How big do these things usually run? Chicago estimated around 2 million for the Blackhawks first Stanley Cup parade. Having half the Greater Cleveland show for the parade probably blows pretty much every ratio comparison out of the water. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077/441 "2016-06-22T17:30:38Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I don’t think what you posted contradicts what I said. I wasn’t saying no one said anything bad about him, but because it came from a place of feeling betrayed, rather than just piling on hatred on a guy. > > Like I said, I don’t think there’s an analog for that situation in all of US sports that I’m aware of. Brooklyn Dodgers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nba-season-2015-2016/733077.md?page=23)