# NBC Nightly News: France offered to merge with the UK.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 16, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135 "2007-01-16T00:28:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 12
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2007, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135/21 "2007-01-16T18:46:26Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
Kings and Queens of the United Kingdom considered themselves rulers of France until George III surrendered the claim.
[/QUOTE]
If the Church starts going on again about female inheritance of Salique land, watch out.
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [January 16, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135/22 "2007-01-16T18:47:50Z")
(Should have previewed. **Giles** ’s post wasn’t there when I first read the thread.)
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2007, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135/23 "2007-01-18T04:39:21Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
Primarily, it’s from conquest: Henry V conquered most of France and was named heir to Charles VI of France. He also married Catherine, who was in line for the French throne. Henry died a little before Charles, but England still claimed France. The French disagreed.
[/QUOTE]
In fact, the English claim to the French crown was almost a century old by then, and was the ostensible reason for Henry’s invasion (along with various other flareups of the Hundred Years’ War).
The claim traces back to Isabella, daughter of Philip IV of France and mother of Edward III of England. When Charles IV of France (last remaining son of Philip IV) died in 1328, Edward III was next in line for the French crown according to English rules of succession. The French rejected this line of succession as based on female descent (and, of course, because they didn’t want to be ruled by the King of England), and put Philip VI (nephew of Philip IV) on the throne.
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### Author:  [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2007, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135/24 "2007-01-18T17:25:27Z")
I’d probably put this one in the same category as the [US plan to invade Canada](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcanadawar.html) in the 1920’s and 30’s. Governments float proposals, conduct discussions, form commitees and draw up plans to meet all sorts of contingencies. Most of this is just talk, and the decision makers know full well that these proposals aren’t really going to go anywhere. But the written historical record only reflects what’s said out loud, so it can look like an idea was considered with much more seriousness than it really was.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [January 18, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135/25 "2007-01-18T21:16:13Z")
It was also a measure of French PM Guy Mollet’s desperation and/or delusion. If it had gotten out that he’d seriously proposed it, I suspect he’d soon be out on his ear - and maybe even put in a padded cell.
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### Author:  [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2007, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135/26 "2007-01-19T21:06:13Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir]
It was also a measure of French PM Guy Mollet’s desperation and/or delusion. If it had gotten out that he’d seriously proposed it, I suspect he’d soon be out on his ear - and maybe even put in a padded cell.
[/QUOTE]
Well, not really. France’s great strategic lesson of the past 140 years is that it lacks the ability to act independently - which is detrimental to its self-image of _La Gloire France_. So, in order to (at least attempt to) maintain its status as a great power, capable of independent action and global influence, France’s response has been to attempt to yoke the power of other nations to its goal. The most obvious example has been the European Union, which originally was envisioned as the Germans providing the motor, while France steered.
The same would be true of a French-British union. I don’t have census and GDP figures at hand for 1956 (and I don’t feel like searching for them), but IIRC France would have been the predominant portion of such a union in both areas.
I don’t think it would have worked - the political culture of the two nations would have been too alien to each other. But it is not all that surprising that Guy Mollet proposed it.
Sua
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### Author:  [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135/27 "2007-01-19T21:12:16Z")
Nor has France completely abandoned the idea of union with another nation in order to enhance its influence. As recently as 2003, France was seriously discussing “union” with [Germany.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,2763,1083955,00.html) Not a full union, but closer cooperation and, most importantly, a common defense and foreign policy.
Sua
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### Author:  [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)
#### Post date: [January 19, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135/28 "2007-01-19T23:53:24Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#):
>
> Scoop? Churchill mentioned his willingness to merge with France in the dark summer of '39.
That’s exactly what I was thinking of. I remember reading about this in Churchill’s six-volume history of WWII. The idea was that if France ended up being conquered by the Nazis, they would still be able to fight alongside the British, IIRC.
[QUOTE=SuaSponte]
As recently as 2003, France was seriously discussing “union” with [Germany.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,2763,1083955,00.html)
[/QUOTE]
Speaking of France being conquered by the Nazis…
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### Author:  [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)
#### Post date: [January 20, 2007, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135/29 "2007-01-20T00:26:15Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi]
Scoop? Churchill mentioned his willingness to merge with France in the dark summer of '39. It is one of those ideas proposed from time to time by ruling-class people.
[/QUOTE]
Not in Summer '39 (when there was no formal war), but in May 1940, an offer to M. Reynaud when things were collapsing fast.
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### Author:  [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)
#### Post date: [January 20, 2007, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135/30 "2007-01-20T07:12:45Z")
[QUOTE=Tripler]
At one point, I remember Brian Williams saying that “. . . France offered to acknowledge the Queen of England. Upon hearing of this new information, one researcher reportedly fell faint onto his feet!”
[/QUOTE]
I think the real question is, how does someone fall “faint onto his feet?” Was he previously unfaint on his levitation machine?
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### Author:  [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)
#### Post date: [January 20, 2007, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135/31 "2007-01-20T08:47:49Z")
[QUOTE=SuaSponte]
The same would be true of a French-British union. I don’t have census and GDP figures at hand for 1956 (and I don’t feel like searching for them), but IIRC France would have been the predominant portion of such a union in both areas.
[/QUOTE]
I’m not so sure about that, France was a bit of a basket case at the time.
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### Author:  [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nbc-nightly-news-france-offered-to-merge-with-the-uk/388135/32 "2007-01-22T15:33:24Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE]
I’m not so sure about that, France was a bit of a basket case at the time.
[/QUOTE]
As was Britain.
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