# NC: Cops pepper spray black foster son of white family **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795 "2014-10-08T20:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/181 "2014-10-09T17:41:03Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Demonstrably false. They had a _responsibility_ to do exactly that! It was their damn job, it’s what they are paid to do! > > They were _called_. They were their to investigate, in a neighborhood that had seen several break-ins. Teenagers sometimes do break in to other people’s houses. > > I am really not understanding this. Liberals, as evidenced in this thread, like to pretend that the police knew all the facts before they even started an ivestigation, like that the man lived there, and then get outraged that the police didn’t act as if they knew all the facts beforehand because they love getting all outraged at the po-po. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/182 "2014-10-09T17:42:47Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Almost no reason doesn’t mean absolutely no reason. I have a hard time coming up with a better reason for the police to enter a house and demand proof of residence than a report of a burglary in progress from a neighbor. > > That’s like a flashing neon sign that says “you really need to find out if this guy lives here”. Sorry, I have to disagree. He didn’t break into the place, he was seen walking in the front door. There was no burglary, nor evidence of any burglary, just a kid some neighbors didn’t recognize. If an 80 year old unfamiliar-looking grandma was seen walking into the front door of a house, would they have assumed she was burgling the place? There’s no more evidence that this kid was a thief, and any assumption to the contrary on the part of neighbors or the police smacks of poor reasoning at best. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/183 "2014-10-09T17:42:59Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Maybe, just maybe, the police didn’t charge him because they’re not out to do him harm, that they’re not vindictive bastards who want to hurt black people. Maybe, just maybe, they thought it was an unfortunate event that didn’t need to result in actual criminal charges and was better handled by discussing it with the kid and his parents. > > Maybe, just maybe, they’re not the assholes people seem so intent on making them out to be. But this can’t be true. All cops are racist assholes who love to go around harasssing and murdering black people for funsies. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/184 "2014-10-09T17:45:17Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Maybe, just maybe, the police didn’t charge him because they’re not out to do him harm, that they’re not vindictive bastards who want to hurt black people. Maybe, just maybe, they thought it was an unfortunate event that didn’t need to result in actual criminal charges and was better handled by discussing it with the kid and his parents. > > Maybe, just maybe, they’re not the assholes people seem so intent on making them out to be. This is very possible. If so, they still pepper-sprayed a kid who didn’t need to be pepper-sprayed. Not the worst thing in the world, but I think the cops should strive to do better, and we should expect better. Even based on the cops’ statement, pepper-spraying the kid was not necessary at all to protect and serve the public. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/185 "2014-10-09T17:46:49Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > There’s no more evidence that this kid was a thief, and any assumption to the contrary on the part of neighbors or the police smacks of poor reasoning at best. Do you even know what the role of the police is? Their job is to investigate whether what the nieghbors said was factual or not. Hence them going out to investigate. The idea that you think the police should be telepathic is retarded. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/186 "2014-10-09T17:47:48Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > …But they shouldn’t have been attempting to handcuff a person in his own home. The police initiated physical contact. That is wrong. Completely wrong. I’m not claiming that the kid resisting was right behavior, but the whole scenario is the result of poorly chosen actions by the police. (post shortened) The 18yr old could not establish that he was in his own home. He had an ID with a different address. There were no pictures of him in an area of the home that contained family photos. A neighbor reported suspicious activity. How dare they! Someone entered their neighbor’s house and they didn’t recognize him. Could the police send an officer to check it out? Maybe it’s nothing, maybe it’s a burglary in progress? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/187 "2014-10-09T17:48:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If so, they still pepper-sprayed a kid who didn’t need to be pepper-sprayed. Oh, so you were there on the scene at the time. Please enlighten us with all the facts of what actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/188 "2014-10-09T17:49:32Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m curious, what would you have them do? Believe him and leave? Yes. Unless there’s some overwhelming evidence that a crime is being committed, beyond the fact that a neighbor saw him and didn’t recognize him. There’s a perspective, evident in this and other threads, that it is right and proper for every person be viewed as a likely/potential criminal by the police until that person can prove that he/she is not. I contend that it’s a wholly inappropriate way to police the citizenry, particularly when there is no direct evidence of criminal activity. And being in a house and not being recognized by the neighbors is _not_ reasonable evidence of criminal activity. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/189 "2014-10-09T17:51:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is very possible. If so, they still pepper-sprayed a kid who didn’t need to be pepper-sprayed. Not the worst thing in the world, but I think the cops should strive to do better, and we should expect better. Even based on the cops’ statement, pepper-spraying the kid was not necessary at all to protect and serve the public. What would you have them do when faced with someone who is threatening them with physical harm, confrontational, won’t calm down, and refusing to sit down calmly while they investigate? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/190 "2014-10-09T17:51:47Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Oh, so you were there on the scene at the time. Please enlighten us with all the facts of what actually happened. They happened in some manner between what the cops said in their latest statement and what the boy said. In both extremes and all situations in between, he didn’t need to be pepper sprayed to protect the officers or the public. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/191 "2014-10-09T17:51:56Z")
I do not condone that the legal punishment for being stupid and argumentative should be getting pepper sprayed. However, if theevolving nature of events ends up with someone being stupid and argumentative getting pepper sprayed I consider that a point for karma and free educational opportunity offered by the school of hard knocks and real life consequences. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/192 "2014-10-09T17:52:55Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Yes. Unless there’s some overwhelming evidence that a crime is being committed, beyond the fact that a neighbor saw him and didn’t recognize him. > > There’s a perspective, evident in this and other threads, that it is right and proper for every person be viewed as a likely/potential criminal by the police until that person can prove that he/she is not. > > I contend that it’s a wholly inappropriate way to police the citizenry, particularly when there is no direct evidence of criminal activity. And being in a house and not being recognized by the neighbors is _not_ reasonable evidence of criminal activity. So what are you suggesting that we treat every citizen (even young black ones) as innocent until proven guilty? Go back to Russia, hippie. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/193 "2014-10-09T17:53:55Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I contend that it’s a wholly inappropriate way to police the citizenry, particularly when there is no direct evidence of criminal activity. And being in a house and not being recognized by the neighbors is _not_ reasonable evidence of criminal activity. So when they entered the house, they didn’t immediately pepper spray him. They investigated. They asked him for his ID. He produced one, where the address on the ID was different from the house he was in. Should they have let him go then? His own ID says he doesn’t live there. You think they should just take his word for it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/194 "2014-10-09T17:53:57Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > What would you have them do when faced with someone who is threatening them with physical harm, confrontational, won’t calm down, and refusing to sit down calmly while they investigate? Probably keep talking to him unless he actually initiates violence. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/195 "2014-10-09T17:55:46Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > So what are you suggesting that we treat every citizen (even young black ones) as innocent until proven guilty? Go back to Russia, hippie. So, when cops come upon a situation that needs investigating the possible perp is supposed to prove their guilt? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/196 "2014-10-09T17:56:15Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Do you even know what the role of the police is? Their job is to investigate whether what the nieghbors said was factual or not. Hence them going out to investigate. The idea that you think the police should be telepathic is retarded. No, your ideas are retarded. Neener neener. And, thanks for the lecture on the “role of the police.” The police actually have a lot of choices, telepathy not being one of them. They can say, “hah, neighbor, your report is interesting but unfounded, we’ll keep your call on file.” (not the best policing, but an option) They can go to the house and watch it for a while, looking for a burglary to occur. They can go up to the house, knock on the door and introduce themselves to whoever opens the door, and say, “there was a report of an unfamiliar person entering the house. Do you live here? What’s your name? Etc etc.” . . . they do not need to ask for “proof.” Clearly, not everybody has “proof.” This kid did not have “proof” that he lived in his own home. So, again, baring any actual evidence of crime, a friendly, pleasantly-initiated conversation with the resident should be as far as their police work goes. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/197 "2014-10-09T17:56:58Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > So what are you suggesting that we treat every citizen (even young black ones) as innocent until proven guilty? Go back to Russia, hippie. This kind of crap is so fucking frustrating. Innocent until proven guilty applies to the courtroom, not to policing. The police don’t need to wait until someone is proven guilty before they can detain, arrest, or give orders to someone. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/198 "2014-10-09T17:58:23Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Sorry, I have to disagree. He didn’t break into the place, he was seen walking in the front door. There was no burglary, nor evidence of any burglary, just a kid some neighbors didn’t recognize… (post shortened) Front door? According to the article linked to in post 173 - _Police arrived at 308 England Avenue, confirmed the above information at the scene with the citizen/caller. The Fuquay-Varina Police **entered the home at the garage door where the individual was seen entering the home**. The Police announced their presence upon entering the garage door which was unlocked. The Police then entered an interior door which was also unlocked, and slightly open._ ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/199 "2014-10-09T18:04:38Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The 18yr old could not establish that he was in his own home. He had an ID with a different address. There were no pictures of him in an area of the home that contained family photos. So what. It should _never_ be my responsibility to provide documents to the police that I live in my own home, _unless there is clearly a crime being committed_. If this lets a few clever con-men dupe the occasional easily-fooled officer, so be it. > [@doorhinge](#): > > A neighbor reported suspicious activity. How dare they! Someone entered their neighbor’s house and they didn’t recognize him. Could the police send an officer to check it out? Maybe it’s nothing, maybe it’s a burglary in progress? See my post above. There are ways to follow-up on a call of “unfamiliar looking person walking through the front door of my neighbor’s house” that don’t involve requiring documentation. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/200 "2014-10-09T18:06:21Z")
Ah. My bad and poor transcribing skills. I still stand by all my opinions, which are based on the fact that he entered the house through an unlocked door, and not by breaking in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795.md?page=11)