# NC: Cops pepper spray black foster son of white family **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795 "2014-10-08T20:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/261 "2014-10-09T20:18:18Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > For all the knee-jerkers on this thread: here is the [police report.](http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/docs/141009121613_0001.pdf) Even the police’s own report describes the first occurrence of a \*physical \*act as Currie saying “Get off me man”. Why would that be? :dubious: The next physical act was Taylor saying “Spray”. > [@](#): > > The pepper-spraying was completely justified. The kid is lucky that’s all that he got. Justified how? Who got physical first? And what would justify the officers doing even more, since you think Currie was “lucky”? Is \*instigating \*violence an appropriate response to being \*yelled at \*by someone who’s home you’ve entered without permission? _Yelled at_? Really? You need to grow the fuck up, like Officer Authoritah has not, maybe take anger management classes or something. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/262 "2014-10-09T20:18:45Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Is there another link to the story? The one in the OP is badly written. > > I just reread. They do not mention recent break ins, but ‘recent criminal activity’. Vague. I misread that originally. > > There is no mention that the cops asked for ID. I guess I assumed that. > > There is no mention of whether the kid had a key, or was asked to present a key. Why read articles about it when you have the [police report.](http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/docs/141009121613_0001.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/263 "2014-10-09T20:19:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Even the police’s own report describes the first occurrence of a \*physical \*act as Currie saying “Get off me man”. You didn’t read the whole report did you? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/264 "2014-10-09T20:20:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Er, yes? Obviously… > > I mean, it wouldn’t be the most sensible thing to do, the best thing to do would be to contact the owner and check. You know, like they tried to in the case we’re discussing, when the guy refused to wait calmly while they did that. But expecting the police not to investigate reports of crime is absurd. Again and again. I have never said they should not investigate. But, the investigation does not require physical proof of residence to avoid suspicion of criminal activity. And, the police invaded this kid’s home. They should be apologizing to him the minute he said he lived there. They don’t have to believe him right away, but they should act like they do. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/265 "2014-10-09T20:20:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > For all the knee-jerkers on this thread: here is the [police report.](http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/docs/141009121613_0001.pdf) > > The pepper-spraying was completely justified. The kid is lucky that’s all that he got. Reminds me of a good scene in the Bruce Willis movie The Fifth Element. Cops: Put your hands on XYZ. Punk: Fuck you!!! Bruce Willis: Wrong answer. Entertainment ensues. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/266 "2014-10-09T20:21:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You didn’t read the whole report did you? With more care than you did, obviously. Now how about going back over it, ask a grownup about any hard words, and try responding without wishing you had a can to spray me with right now. You do, don’t you, admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/267 "2014-10-09T20:22:33Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > The rest of LHOD post was how he thought the police should respond. Which was what they did. They investigated, they asked the kid for his ID, and the ID showed an address that didn’t match the address of the house. So they investigate further, by asking him questions. He doesn’t answer their questions, and instead escalates the confrontation and threatens physical violence to the police officer. The police officer attempts to calm the kid down … kid doesn’t comply. The police officer asks the kid to sit down. Kid refuses. Police officer asks again. Kid refuses. Police officer now has a person who is angry, confrontational, unwilling to calm down, won’t follow orders, won’t allow de-escalation to occur, and threatened them with physical violence. Read the report. That’s not remotely what they did. They came in to the house with their guns drawn, shouting that they were the police. As soon as they saw him, they made him put his hands in the air and frisked him. They found his wallet, pulled out his ID, and challenged him on why his address didn’t match. They didn’t answer his questions (like, “What are you doing in my house?” which is, y’know, a legitimate question that they could have answered.) These guys were acting like knuckleheads. Again, if this hadn’t been a black kid but a white Tea Partier, they might’ve gotten sprayed down themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/268 "2014-10-09T20:22:32Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Okay, after all of this, the kid demands that the cops leave after staying consistent in his story that he’s a foster kid in the home. > > What should the cops have done at that point? Here are some choices: > > 1. Continued to pester and harass the kid, making him feeling increasingly upset and violated and scared. > > 2. Pull out the pepper spray because the kid is getting pissed and using some choice words…and look at there, he just touched my arm!! SPISSHHHHHHH > > 3. Tip their hats and exit the premises and either wait until owner the comes home or look to make sure the kid doesn’t jump out of the back window carrying a TV. > > Pick which one of these seems like the legally and ethically best course of action. How about, secure the person in the house until a determination can be made whether his story is accurate and he has a right to be there, or it is not and he doesn’t. I have a ton of ways I can prove that I belong in my own house excluding the fact that my ID matches, I’m on the utility bills, and I pay the property taxes. How about - that’s where I keep the vacuum, and the lightbulbs are over there. This is my room, here’s my underwear in the third drawer from the top, cups are on the left of the kitchen sink, and there’s episodes of Breaking Bad on the DVR. Wait - cops are racists. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/269 "2014-10-09T20:26:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Again, if this hadn’t been a black kid but a white Tea Partier, they might’ve gotten sprayed down themselves. And if he’d exercised his Second Amendment rights, he’d have had a more effective way to protect himself from the jackbooted thugs of the tyrannical government. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/270 "2014-10-09T20:26:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > For all the knee-jerkers on this thread: here is the [police report.](http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/docs/141009121613_0001.pdf) > t. So according to the cops’ own report, they entered the home uninvited. Just opened the door and walked right in. No indication they even knocked or announced themselves. Interesting. And then they proceeded to search the premises without even asking if they could do that. Even more interesting. And when Currie reacted like anyone would react would when confronted with armed interlopers, he was physically assaulted, handcuffed, and pepper sprayed. Currie might’ve hit the jackpot. I’m almost jealous. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/271 "2014-10-09T20:27:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > There’s no evidence that the police de-escalated, in that report. What opportunity did they have to de-escalate? With a report of a burglary, they need to ensure their own safety. You’ll note from the report that they check him for weapons, checked his ID, and asked him to sit down while they finished clearing the house. He didn’t sit down long enough for the two cops upstairs to finish before getting in the face of the one cop left downstairs to watch him. Touched his arm? The cop is there on his own watching a person who may or may not be a burglar, and the guy gets angrily up in his face and the cop is supposed to… what? Not handcuff him? Wait to get punched in the face? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/272 "2014-10-09T20:27:42Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Read the report. That’s not remotely what they did. They came in to the house with their guns drawn, shouting that they were the police. As soon as they saw him, they made him put his hands in the air and frisked him. They found his wallet, pulled out his ID, and challenged him on why his address didn’t match. They didn’t answer his questions (like, “What are you doing in my house?” which is, y’know, a legitimate question that they could have answered.) > > These guys were acting like knuckleheads. Again, if this hadn’t been a black kid but a white Tea Partier, they might’ve gotten sprayed down themselves. Which part of those actions do you object to and what would be your alternative when approaching a house with an open door during a burglary call? ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/273 "2014-10-09T20:28:38Z")
I’m trying to figure out why someone thinks the police report will be a repository of reliable and accurate information. A police officer is no less or more likely to lie than the alleged criminal. In my not-inconsiderable experience, I’ve yet to come across a report involving a criminal matter that is accurate and without material flaw (including flat-out falsehoods or misinformation that cannot be attributed to reasonable misperception or honest mistake). What do you expect the report to say under the circumstances, esp. where the police does not immediately say “it’s under investigation” but instead come out and declare X-Y-Z is so? If not telling the truth, one presumes that the police checked the house for video and audio recordings before they decided on a particular story or strategy (whether that included baiting the object of their scrutiny into doing something stupid or knee-jerk, which is also a routine procedure). Sounds like someone is awfully naive (as I used to be long ago and far away). Cops – like virtually all humans – will lie about the dumbest things when they have very little incentive and plenty of disincentive (unintended consequences), never mind something that would damage reputation and career-endingly serious. Same as the most recent teenager killing, this time in St. Louis where, for those who do not understand the case law as recognized in most jurisdictions, allegedly or actually running away from a cop or a cop car coming or driving toward you does NOT … repeat does NOT … qualify as “reasonable suspicion” that a crime has taken place or is taking place. As for the most recent death, I allow for people occupying a particular bubble – whether wittingly or in wilful denial or wishful thinking – and being entirely resistant to the reality that a certain segment of any metropolitan police force is not above the use of a throw-down gun as/when a situation requires. Of course, in this day and age that’s quite a lot more difficult to get away with than in the past. Like the Whitey Bulger case, it takes quite a few criminal acts of conspiracy and misfeasance. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/274 "2014-10-09T20:28:48Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Okay, after all of this, the kid demands that the cops leave after staying consistent in his story that he’s a foster kid in the home. > > What should the cops have done at that point? Here are some choices: > > 1. Continued to pester and harass the kid, making him feeling increasingly upset and violated and scared. > > 2. Pull out the pepper spray because the kid is getting pissed and using some choice words…and look at there, he just touched my arm!! SPISSHHHHHHH > > 3. Tip their hats and exit the premises and either wait until owner the comes home or look to make sure the kid doesn’t jump out of the back window carrying a TV. > > Pick which one of these seems like the legally and ethically best course of action. Wow. 1. You do not know that is what occurred. You make an assumption that seems biased. 2. You do not know that is what occurred. You make an assumption that seems biased. 3. Not reasonable. They are not going to stake out a house with an unattended suspect. It is just not a reasonable thing to do. And until they know the kid belongs, he is suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/275 "2014-10-09T20:29:33Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Currie might’ve hit the jackpot. I’m almost jealous. He’s not getting 2 cents out of this. They were investigating a reasonable report of a burglary. Seriously, it’s like you all want completely useless police forces in your town. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/276 "2014-10-09T20:31:49Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Which part of those actions do you object to and what would be your alternative when approaching a house with an open door during a burglary call? I think there is a dramatic difference between a burglary call and a suspected burglary call reported by the neighbors, whose only evidence is entry of the house by someone they didn’t recognize. If the neighbor had seen someone break in, then entering the house with guns out is appropriate. There is no evidence of burglary when the cops show up. It should have been a house-call to make sure everything was above board. Knock on the front door. Say hello. Introduce yourselves. Ask some questions. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/277 "2014-10-09T20:33:04Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > He’s not getting 2 cents out of this. They were investigating a reasonable report of a burglary. > > Seriously, it’s like you all want completely useless police forces in your town. Can I settle for non-racist ones? As I’ve said, they should have treated him like a human, a misunderstanding, and detained him until they could make a positive ID but without escalating it. If he was right, they should have reasoned, he has a good reason to be angry and agitated. Take that into account and let him blow off a little steam. But instead they saw that he was black ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/278 "2014-10-09T20:34:56Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > He’s not getting 2 cents out of this. They were investigating a reasonable report of a burglary. Then they \*assaulted \*an unarmed person who was doing nothing more than \*yelling \*at them. > [@](#): > > Seriously, it’s like you all want completely useless police forces in your town. No, just ones capable of exercising some self-control. Is that too much to ask? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/279 "2014-10-09T20:36:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > . They came in to the house with their guns drawn, shouting that they were the police. Where are you getting that? I just read the police report again. No mention of them drawing their weapons before entering, before asking the kid some questions. The link in the OP doesn’t mention guns drawn before entering. Oddly, it mentions the owner left the door open for him. Why? Why wouldn’t an 18 yr old resident of the house not have his own key? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/280 "2014-10-09T20:37:04Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Touched his arm? The cop is there on his own watching a person who may or may not be a burglar, and the guy gets angrily up in his face and the cop is supposed to… what? Not handcuff him? Wait to get punched in the face? Yep. You’re right. They totally should have handcuffed him. But the cops should have never entered the home uninvited _in this specific situation_ in the first place. There was no evidence of criminal activity. Just a person the neighbors don’t recognize entering the house through normal channels. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795.md?page=15)