# NC: Cops pepper spray black foster son of white family **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795 "2014-10-08T20:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/21 "2014-10-08T20:58:30Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What fucking difference does it make? He was in his own fucking house! > > Won’t be long and smapti will be along to say the kid should have offered them a blowjob. I know that Shodan is disliked on this board, but I think he has a point here. There doesn’t seem to be much detail in the link in the OP, and the crux of this is going to be what ‘argued’ really boiled down too. In general, cops don’t pepper spray someone just for fun. Then again, they might have knee jerked that a black kid in a house occupied by white people who’s photos were on the wall was automatically lying, so decided to cut the argument short and just use non-lethal controls to subdue him. We don’t know, since there doesn’t seem to be much detail about this. As for being in his house, that doesn’t give you complete license to do anything you if the police are responding to a call…at least not as far as I know. If I’m in my house and the police are responding to a call about domestic violence, say, and I refuse to cooperate and become violent or abusive I’m fairly sure the police would be within their rights and powers to taser or use other non-lethal…or even lethal depending on what I’m doing…force against me. So, it makes a HUGE difference just what ‘argue’ means in the context of this particular case. Or do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/22 "2014-10-08T20:59:38Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Weird stuff happens every day. Yes. For example, police believed a burglar tried to pass himself off as a foster child. That’s fucking weird (unless you know the foster kid is black). It is literally the punchline of a Dave Chappelle joke from _Killing Them Softly_. > [@](#): > > I don’t think the police should simply take the word of someone alone in a house, when the neighbor has called the police and there are photos of the kids, but not the foster child. So wait. Or contact the foster parents. How long do you think a burglar will keep up the charade in that situation? > [@](#): > > apparently, the foster child gets belligerent and refuses to cooperate with the police while they investigate. Yes, it’s quite shocking that an 18-year-old who is confronted by police in his own home and accused of breaking the law was belligerent! 18-year-olds usually _love_ being asked questions and dealing with authority figures! > [@Loach](#): > > Someone I worked with helped a guy put a TV into their car only to find out later it was the burglar. Thinking a criminal might lie to cops is not a big stretch. If only that had fuck-all to do with the story in question. > [@Reyemile](#): > > But you’re not _actually_ interested in furthering the discussion, are you? Spoiler alert: no. He doesn’t do that. I think he used to, but at some point he gave up. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/23 "2014-10-08T21:01:07Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > Actually, if you scrolled up about three posts from yours, you’d see exactly why your post got criticized: Yes, it was because he classed any response except instant condemnation of the cops as nitpicking. That’s what I said. > [@](#): > > But you’re not _actually_ interested in furthering the discussion, are you? You just want to criticize liberal boogiemen while pretending your positions are defensible. No, you are correct - since this is the Pit, I am amusing myself at the expense of the various knee-jerks. My position is entirely defensible, which explains much of the fury that **Colibri** and **Marley23** and some of the rest showed - they recognize on some level that jumping to conclusions can come back to bite them in the ass. And now they can’t enjoy their circle-jerk because they are aware that I am here to mock and deride them if and when it turns out that this kid got pepper sprayed for reasons other than that the cops just felt like squirting a black kid. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/24 "2014-10-08T21:01:28Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Someone I worked with helped a guy put a TV into their car only to find out later it was the burglar. Thinking a criminal might lie to cops is not a big stretch. Sorry to quote my own post but to clarify, that was a uniformed police officer who fell for the lie and actually helped with the burglary. And no he will never live it down. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/25 "2014-10-08T21:03:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So jerk the knees, with the emphasis on “jerk”. > > Regards, > Shodan If your post wasn’t a kneejerk response, then it was trolling. What a total hypocrite and tool. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/26 "2014-10-08T21:03:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The idea that a burglar would try to fool the cops by pretending he lived in a house he broke into is just fucking weird. > [@](#): > > If only that had fuck-all to do with the story in question. Thanks for demonstrating how seriously to take you. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/27 "2014-10-08T21:03:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If only that had fuck-all to do with the story in question. It had fuck all to do with your quote. You know where you said, “The idea that a burglar would try to fool the cops by pretending he lived in a house he broke into is just fucking weird.” Remember that? I am here to tell you that it happens all the time. Sorry if it seems weird to you. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/28 "2014-10-08T21:06:06Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Sorry to quote my own post but to clarify, that was a uniformed police officer who fell for the lie and actually helped with the burglary. And no he will never live it down. That makes a little more sense. Now let’s discuss the difference between someone who is putting a TV into a truck and getting ready to leave and someone who plans to stay in a house. If the police stayed in the house until the homeowners returned, would a burglar have continued to lie? If they had gotten in touch with the homeowners, would a burglar have gotten on the phone and tried to convince them that they’d adopted a teenager and forgotten about it? It seems to me this “lie” could’ve been easily checked because it had a finite shelf life. ---
**Author:** ![TheChileanBlob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thechileanblob/32/435_2.png) [@TheChileanBlob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheChileanBlob)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/29 "2014-10-08T21:08:08Z")
> [@XT](#): > > In general, cops don’t pepper spray someone just for fun. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/30 "2014-10-08T21:11:28Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So wait. Or contact the foster parents. How long do you think a burglar will keep up the charade in that situation? Perhaps the police were trying to contact the home owners. Or contact the neighbor. Or ask the kid for ID. Or look for other photos. And in the course of the investigation, the foster kid became belligerent and uncooperative. I think we should wait for actual facts to come out before grabbing the pitchforks and torches. > [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, it’s quite shocking that an 18-year-old who is confronted by police in his own home and accused of breaking the law was belligerent! 18-year-olds usually _love_ being asked questions and dealing with authority figures! So, the police are investigating, and a kid become belligerent. What do you think the police should do? Apologize to the kid and leave? Say “Oh, sorry. It’s too weird that you would keep up this charade and now you’re angry, so clearly this is your house, we’ll just go ahead and leave. Sorry to bother you?” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/31 "2014-10-08T21:13:03Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Perhaps the police were trying to contact the home owners. Or contact the neighbor. Or ask the kid for ID. Or look for other photos. And in the course of the investigation, the foster kid became belligerent and uncooperative. And he somehow prevented three cops from doing this by arguing with them? Wait, I know- he charged them, right? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/32 "2014-10-08T21:14:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, it’s quite shocking that an 18-year-old who is confronted by police in his own home and accused of breaking the law was belligerent! 18-year-olds usually _love_ being asked questions and dealing with authority figures! Who gives a crap what he likes or doesn’t like? The police showed up with a valid purpose, and a reasonable belief that a crime may be in progress. It is their duty to investigate. If you think the police are mistaken, arguing with them isn’t going to fix the problem. It never fixes the problem. Arguing has a 100% failure rate. Like being a pain in the ass is going to get the cop to say “I don’t need this shit, I’m leaving. I don’t care if this guy’s a burglar or not.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/33 "2014-10-08T21:15:03Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Who gives a crap what he likes or doesn’t like? Police who don’t want to hurt innocent people. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/34 "2014-10-08T21:15:04Z")
> [@TheChileanBlob](#): > > :dubious: Have you ever USED pepper spray? Much less in a confined space, with someone you will probably have to struggle with, handcuff, and put in your work vehicle? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/35 "2014-10-08T21:16:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And he somehow prevented three cops from doing this by arguing with them? Wait, I know- he charged them, right? WE DON’T FUCKING KNOW. That’s kinda my point. But, by all means, continue with your recreational outrage. FIGHT THE POWER!!! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/36 "2014-10-08T21:16:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And he somehow prevented three cops from doing this by arguing with them? Well, there is that word again. What exactly did the arguing entail here? Was it the kid rationally arguing with them and trying to explain it was his house and maybe asking the police to call his folks? If so, then obviously the police fucked up and are in the wrong. Was it the kid becoming belligerent perhaps and abusive? In which case we might be in a gray area, depending on how it went down. Or did the kid become violent? In which case the police actions make perfect sense. Since we don’t know, it’s kind of hard to judge at this point, and really this is just a lot of speculation and RO. I believe that’s what Loach and Hamlet are getting at. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/37 "2014-10-08T21:24:37Z")
: > [@Marley23](#): > > There’s already a little discussion of this incident in the Hammond, IN thread. The idea that a burglar would try to fool the cops by pretending he lived in a house he broke into is just fucking weird. Actually, I’ve seen this scenario multiple times on “Cops”. People (sane or not) claim they live in a residence or have permission from the owners to be there - but don’t. Of course, it could still be that we live in a police state where rights are violated constantly, and racism and immediate escalation to unncessary violence run rampant among law enforcement officers. :smack::eek::smack: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/38 "2014-10-08T21:25:06Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, there is that word again. What exactly did the arguing entail here? Was it the kid rationally arguing with them and trying to explain it was his house and maybe asking the police to call his folks? If so, then obviously the police fucked up and are in the wrong. Was it the kid becoming belligerent perhaps and abusive? Well, let’s talk about the evidence that he was belligerent and abusive. And then compare it to the evidence people are just throwing those words around. > [@Hamlet](#): > > But, by all means, continue with your recreational outrage. FIGHT THE POWER!!! I’m sorry. You were about to accomplish something really productive in this thread, I can tell. I hope I didn’t stop your crusade for whatever it is. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/39 "2014-10-08T21:27:42Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Who gives a crap what he likes or doesn’t like? The police showed up with a valid purpose, and a reasonable belief that a crime may be in progress. It is their duty to investigate. Yes, investigate. Ask to see his bedroom. Ask him to call one of his folks and put them on the phone. Pepper spray him? Not so much investigative. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/40 "2014-10-08T21:28:30Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Well, let’s talk about the evidence that he was belligerent and abusive. And then compare it to the evidence people are just throwing those words around. [/QUOTE] Well, ok. Do you have any evidence? The only thing I’ve seen so far is what’s in the OP, and it’s pretty evidence free. You can speculate any way you like from that article, depending on your prejudices. For my part, I’m equally believing that this could have been the kids fault pushing the cops and becoming violent or abusive, or that it was the cops jumping to conclusions and jumping the gun on using a non-lethal device to subdue someone…or, that there is a middle ground of fuckup-ed-ness where both parties basically fucked up and pushed things to a less than optimal conclusion. Or anything in between. But if you have some evidence, I’m all ears. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795.md?page=3)