# NC: Cops pepper spray black foster son of white family **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795 "2014-10-08T20:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/781 "2014-10-15T20:24:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t think this will ever reach a courtroom. Currie hasn’t been charged with anything, and the family isn’t suing that I know of. > > Come to think of it, I doubt Deshawn has been adopted, so the (former) foster family may not have standing to sue. Currie could, but he’s the only witness and he does not strike me as the most credible guy on earth. > > Maybe they will sue and hope for a settlement, but I doubt it. > > Regards, > Shodan I just thought it should be mentioned that the officers are still available to clear up any ambiguity or misconception about what was in their written reports. And could do so under oath. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/782 "2014-10-15T20:25:20Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > He reported that it was unsecured. That word doesn’t mean “closed”. Your argument has no merit whatsoever. Unsecured doesn’t mean open either. And wishing for something to be true, doesn’t make it true either. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/783 "2014-10-15T20:27:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I am white as are my parents. 😕 Why is that relevant? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/784 "2014-10-15T20:27:40Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > …But keep on denying what is damn well obvious. Watching yall tap dance like a bunch of nervous nellies is hilarious. Hahahaha. Damn well obvious to you does not mean it’s damn well obvious to me. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/785 "2014-10-15T20:29:12Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Unsecured doesn’t mean open either. > > And wishing for something to be true, doesn’t make it true either. Then what point are you demanding that everyone accept? Was the door closed or was the door open? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/786 "2014-10-15T20:29:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > **Bricker** , a legal question. Let’s say the door was closed, but unlocked. The cops arrive after the neighbor calls in what she thinks is an intruder. The cops walk around the premises and see no one. The report is that someone who does not live at the address entered. Seems they are duty bound to determine that there is no one in the home who should not be there. Correct? No. First, the police don’t actually have a “duty” to do anything like that, in the sense that they cannot be sued if they fail to. Now, I would hope that the police are motivated to investigate further, but any such investigation must respect the limits of the Constitution. If they don’t see any evidence that there was a break-in, then they can’t enter. (There are other reasons they could enter: under the community caretaker exception, for example, if they had reason to suspect that someone’s life or health was in danger, they could enter; their entry would be motivated not by the desire to enforce the criminal law but by the desire to assist. Obviously that’s not in play here.) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/787 "2014-10-15T20:33:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I just thought it should be mentioned that the officers are still available to clear up any ambiguity or misconception about what was in their written reports. And could do so under oath. Currie could also swear under oath that the door was closed. His testimony, plus the discrepancies in the police report, plus the low likelihood that Currie would fail to close the door at the precise time these cops decided a warrantless entry was in order, would probably make a jury or judge disinclined to take the cops at their word. “Heavy burden” not met. Yall seem to think the legality of their actions hinges solely upon this door being ajar. I think there’s plenty of reason to consider this wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/788 "2014-10-15T20:35:24Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Then what point are you demanding that everyone accept? Was the door closed or was the door open? Stancil gave no indication in his report the door was ajar. He tested it to see that it was locked, which implies it was closed. Yes, reaching this conclusion requires engaging your frontal lobe a bit. And maybe you don’t have the capacity for this. But the conclusion is clear to anyone who can read and draw inferences: When Stancil checked the door it was closed. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/789 "2014-10-15T20:36:18Z")
The debate seems to be about whether the door was open or shut. Either seems plausible to me; I can both see a cop turning the knob of an open door to see if it was unlocked, and can see a cop opening a shut door that was unlocked. According to **Bricker** , whether the door was open is pivotal to whether the entry was permissible. **SO WHY DOESN’T STANCIL SPECIFY IN HIS REPORT WHETHER THE DOOR WAS OPEN?** These guys, I tell you. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/790 "2014-10-15T20:39:22Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Stancil gave no indication in his report the door was ajar. He tested it to see that it was locked, which implies it was closed. > > Yes, reaching this conclusion requires engaging your frontal lobe a bit. And maybe you don’t have the capacity for this. But the conclusion is clear to anyone who can read and draw inferences: When Stancil checked the door it was closed. “Implies”? “Draw inferences”? You’re a hoot. You made up your mind that the door was closed. You’re entitled to your opinion but you seem to be having a little trouble forcing your opinion on everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/791 "2014-10-15T20:41:06Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Currie could also swear under oath that the door was closed. > > His testimony, plus the discrepancies in the police report, plus the low likelihood that Currie would fail to close the door at the precise time these cops decided a warrantless entry was in order, would probably make a jury or judge disinclined to take the cops at their word. “Heavy burden” not met. > > Yall seem to think the legality of their actions hinges solely upon this door being ajar. I think there’s plenty of reason to consider this wishful thinking. Solely? No. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/792 "2014-10-15T20:56:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Before he was cuffed, he had the capacity to carry out his threats of violence against the police. Afterwards, he didn’t. I see that as an improvement in the situation. You’ll note that I _specifically_ said that I was comparing it to the situation _before_ the police felt it was necessary to cuff and pepper spray the guy. Because I assumed otherwise this would be your argument. I guess I didn’t do a good enough job of seeing it off at the pass. Unless, I guess, you _are_ comparing it to the state of things prior to the police feeling the need to subdue Currie. Are you? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/793 "2014-10-15T21:34:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I wonder if, eventually, making fun of liberals will be defined as “trolling”, as some would like to do. > > Regards, > Shodan Uh, yes. And a racist. And a hater. After that, they will start to treat you mean! ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/794 "2014-10-15T22:07:42Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > According to **Bricker** , whether the door was open is pivotal to whether the entry was permissible. > > **SO WHY DOESN’T STANCIL SPECIFY IN HIS REPORT WHETHER THE DOOR WAS OPEN?** And do we want cops skirting so closely to the edge of legality that a mere 4 inch gap stands in the way between violating someone’s civil rights and apprehending a suspect? If the house of cards so easily collapses when a single element is thrown into question, then it wasn’t much of a house to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/795 "2014-10-15T22:40:39Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Currie could also swear under oath that the door was closed. He could, and then there would be some actual evidence that the door was closed. But, unless you’ve heard something he’s said but not shared with the class, then we don’t have that evidence. > [@](#): > > His testimony, plus the discrepancies in the police report, plus the low likelihood that Currie would fail to close the door at the precise time these cops decided a warrantless entry was in order, would probably make a jury or judge disinclined to take the cops at their word. “Heavy burden” not met. There’s no discrepancy in the reports. Two report that the door was open, the third that it was unsecured. They do not contradict each other. Now, a judge may choose to disbelieve the cops. But then, he has no information on whether the door was open or closed, so cannot rule based on that. > [@](#): > > Yall seem to think the legality of their actions hinges solely upon this door being ajar. I think there’s plenty of reason to consider this wishful thinking. No, some of us think their actions may well have been legal even if the door was closed. But there’s no question that they were legal if it was open. As you have been shown with repeated citations, despite the fact that common sense should show that they were doing their job properly by entering and securing the property. Not that common sense has a lot to do with the law, but if it had turned out that what they did was illegal, then the law would need changing. No-one’s rights were violated, except possibly those of the cop who was threatened and grabbed by Currie. He has the right to do his job without receiving abuse or violence. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/796 "2014-10-16T02:14:12Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And do we want cops skirting so closely to the edge of legality that a mere 4 inch gap stands in the way between violating someone’s civil rights and apprehending a suspect? > > If the house of cards so easily collapses when a single element is thrown into question, then it wasn’t much of a house to begin with. “We” don’t seem to mind. Legislation, rules, and regulations were written, discussed, and passed. That’s usually were the bright lines are drawn. If they ever rewrite the rules to allow you, or anyone else, immunity to arbitrarily alter the edge of legality based on a current whim or recently hurt feelings, drop me a personal message. I like to keep abreast of stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/797 "2014-10-16T05:16:00Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This is where things like doorbells and radios come in. If the door is closed, it should stay closed. Okay. So, if I go break into a house, just remember to not leave the door ajar. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/798 "2014-10-16T09:34:59Z")
As I read it, the knob that Stancil twisted was on the outside door leading into the garage, and the door from the garage to the house was the one that was left open. What would the cops have done if Currie had locked the outer door behind him when he entered? Would they legally have been able to break in? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/799 "2014-10-16T10:08:32Z")
> [@eulalia](#): > > As I read it, the knob that Stancil twisted was on the outside door leading into the garage, and the door from the garage to the house was the one that was left open. What would the cops have done if Currie had locked the outer door behind him when he entered? Would they legally have been able to break in? If your interpretation of the door is correct (and it very well might), then Stancil entered the property (the garage) through a closed door. It doesn’t matter whether if it was locked or not. An unlocked door doesn’t anyone the right to enter. Your scenario is bad for the cops because it implies their evidence of a break-in comes from a door that they should have never had access to. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795/800 "2014-10-16T10:28:55Z")
Please, as has been mentioned repeatedly, explain why you think that the police went through any closed doors. There’s nothing in the police report, or any other released evidence, that suggests they did. I mean, we all know you have a history of making stuff up to incriminate people you don’t like, but you still need to be called on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-cops-pepper-spray-black-foster-son-of-white-family/700795.md?page=41)