# NC Federal House Districts unconstitutionally gerrymandered **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 10, 2018, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306 "2018-01-10T12:00:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/221 "2018-08-31T22:42:46Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But when we go out and vote, when we talk about who we will vote for, when we talk about the issues that concern us, that is all entirely opinion. I don’t think this thread has a title that suggests it’s about who to vote for. > [@](#): > > We know that the changes are not law, that’s why they are changes that are being proposed. Pointing out that changes that are being advocated for, due to our personal opinions on how to best run our communities are not the current law of the land is what it pretty much completely irrelevant to any thread, conversation, or even monologue you could possibly think of. I disagree. A thread can be about the law. This one is, I think. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/222 "2018-08-31T23:20:07Z")
That story about the guy who took the Rorschach ink blot test, and wondered why the doctor kept showing him dirty pictures. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/223 "2018-09-01T00:18:25Z")
[Ooh, lookie, there’s news](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article217646455.html): > [@News and Observer](#): > > It is too late to redraw North Carolina’s congressional districts for the 2018 election despite a court ruling them unconstitutional, the winners in the state’s partisan gerrymandering case said Friday. > > The state chapters of Common Cause and The League of Women Voters won their gerrymandering case on Monday, but on Friday they wrote to the federal judges who had ruled for them that the November election is too soon to try to draw new maps. > > “Attempting to impose a new districting plan in time for the 2018 election would be too disruptive and potentially counterproductive,” they wrote, adding that they reached their conclusion “with utmost frustration and regret.” > > However, the three-judge panel isn’t required to use their suggestion, or the suggestion from the defendants in the case, which was also filed Friday. I certainly feel that frustration and regret, but think I see where they’re coming from. A court order to remedy legislative malpractice that might end up benefiting the malefactors is not going to be a good court order, no matter how much I’d love to see the immediate problem solved. I’ll be interested to see how the court responds. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/224 "2018-09-01T00:57:23Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Ooh, lookie, there’s news](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article217646455.html): > > I certainly feel that frustration and regret, but think I see where they’re coming from. A court order to remedy legislative malpractice that might end up benefiting the malefactors is not going to be a good court order, no matter how much I’d love to see the immediate problem solved. > > I’ll be interested to see how the court responds. What a clusterfuck. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/225 "2018-09-01T01:51:12Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > What a clusterfuck. Yup. Meanwhile, [two totally fucked-up amendments are currently scheduled to be back on the ballot](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article217651375.html), although that’s gonna go to the NC Supreme Court; and [the governor has regained the ability to appoint people to boards and commissions that perform duties of the executive branch](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article217667050.html), the legislature having taken this power for themselves shortly after a Democrat won the governor’s house. All three of these stories are from today’s news. Clusterfuck barely begins to cover it. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/226 "2018-09-01T02:06:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yup. Meanwhile, [two totally fucked-up amendments are currently scheduled to be back on the ballot](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article217651375.html), although that’s gonna go to the NC Supreme Court; and [the governor has regained the ability to appoint people to boards and commissions that perform duties of the executive branch](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article217667050.html), the legislature having taken this power for themselves shortly after a Democrat won the governor’s house. > > All three of these stories are from today’s news. > > Clusterfuck barely begins to cover it. Yeah, I read all that mess this morning myself. Now I just need a convenient wall to bang my head against. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/227 "2018-09-01T12:34:06Z")
For folks outside the state, there’s a pattern y’all may not see yet: The legislative branch is overwhelmingly Republican (due, again, to extreme gerrymandering–they’re only earning a bare majority of votes). The executive branch is Democratic (because gerrymandering can’t affect gubernatorial elections here; it was a bare victory in 2016). They hate each other. The governor is not doing everything he can to undermine the legislative branch. The legislative branch is furiously writing laws to take power away from the executive branch. When the two branches fight, the third branch–the judicial branch–is supposed to step in to maintain balance of powers, right? And that’s what they’ve been doing. Time after time after time, the judicial branch has said, “What the fuck, legislative branch? You can’t do that!” The legislative branch, seeing the balance of powers maintained (i.e., seeing their will to dominate thwarted), is turning attention on the judicial branch. They’re trying to pack the courts with their flunkies, and also they’re threatening impeachment of judges who rule against them. If they succeed, then the balance of powers will be obliterated. This is a pretty basic attack on our system of government. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/228 "2018-09-01T15:31:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Ooh, lookie, there’s news](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article217646455.html): > > I certainly feel that frustration and regret, but think I see where they’re coming from. A court order to remedy legislative malpractice that might end up benefiting the malefactors is not going to be a good court order, no matter how much I’d love to see the immediate problem solved. > > I’ll be interested to see how the court responds. \*\*IT IS ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that no election for United States Representatives will take place in the State of North Carolina until a set of district boundaries has been approved by the Legislature and Governor and accepted by this Court. If the Legislature is unable to come up with an unacceptable set of boundaries, the boundaries will be determined by this Court. IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED than no election for United States Representatives will take place in the State of North Carolina unless the procedures for that election are approved by this Court, or until the Court rescinds this Order. IT IS FURTHER ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that no United States Representatives from the State of North Carolina will be seated in the One Hundred Sixteenth United States Congress unless they have been elected by the People of North Carolina in an election, and with district boundaries, approved by this Court. SO ORDERED.\*\* I think this Order will encourage the Legislature to act expeditiously. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/229 "2018-09-01T16:21:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yup. Meanwhile, [two totally fucked-up amendments are currently scheduled to be back on the ballot](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article217651375.html), although that’s gonna go to the NC Supreme Court… If the voters approve them, what’s the problem? Isn’t about as close to direct democracy in action as we can imagine in a representative democracy? And it’s a statewide vote, so whatever the issues in your mind are about gerrymandered districts won’t affect the approval process. Or is this this just another instance of _I love democracy, except when the stupid voters don’t do what they’re told by their betters?_ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/230 "2018-09-01T16:23:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If the voters approve them, what’s the problem? Isn’t about as close to direct democracy in action as we can imagine in a representative democracy? And it’s a statewide vote, so whatever the issues in your mind are about gerrymandered districts won’t affect the approval process. > > Or is this this just another instance of _I love democracy, except when the stupid voters don’t do what they’re told by their betters?_ If the majority voted to disenfranchise a minority, would you oppose the courts stepping in? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/231 "2018-09-01T16:45:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If the voters approve them, what’s the problem? Before I answer this question, did you actually bother to read the link, and you don’t understand the problem? > [@](#): > > Or is this this just another instance of _I love democracy, except when the stupid voters don’t do what they’re told by their betters?_ You just can’t help yourself, can you? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/232 "2018-09-01T17:10:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t think this thread has a title that suggests it’s about who to vote for. Ultimately, who we vote for is our greatest personal effect on govt. Who we advocate for others to vote for has an impact as well. Also, as I said, we are talking about issues that concern us. > [@](#): > > I disagree. A thread can be about the law. This one is, I think. A thread can be about the law, and this one is, correct. It is about the law, and how we, as individuals and as a society, feel about that law. When I asked for a zoning variance for my business (something I didn’t even know I could do until you brought it up many moons ago, thanks), I didn’t go in and quote the regulations that I wanted to change, and they didn’t quote back at me the regulations that I wanted to change. We instead, talked about how we would be altering from those regulations, in order to accommodate my needs. Which is more productive there? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/233 "2018-09-01T17:18:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > A thread can be about the law, and this one is, correct. It is about the law, and how we, as individuals and as a society, feel about that law. Right. It is about the law, and the court’s interpretation of the law. However, that’s not all it’s about; nor do I believe, at least today, that the courts provide some sort of supernaturally correct interpretation of the law. Those interpretations that lose in a partisan court may still be superior interpretations. It is also about what a healthy democracy should do. A thread can have several purposes and related topics. Folks who find themselves ill-equipped to participate in any aspect of that discussion are, of course, correct to absent themselves from that aspect. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/234 "2018-09-01T17:31:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Before I answer this question, did you actually bother to read the link, and you don’t understand the problem? > > You just can’t help yourself, can you? Read the link, don’t see there’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/235 "2018-09-01T17:33:09Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Right. It is about the law, and the court’s interpretation of the law. However, that’s not all it’s about; nor do I believe, at least today, that the courts provide some sort of supernaturally correct interpretation of the law. Those interpretations that lose in a partisan court may still be superior interpretations. > > It is also about what a healthy democracy should do. A thread can have several purposes and related topics. > > Folks who find themselves ill-equipped to participate in any aspect of that discussion are, of course, correct to absent themselves from that aspect. You get people to stop demanding my personal view; I’ll stop offering it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/236 "2018-09-01T17:49:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Read the link, don’t see there’s a problem. Do you mean you believe that the new proposed amendment description for the ballot is sufficiently descriptive of the amendment that it doesn’t present a problem, or do you mean that you don’t believe amendments need to be described accurately for the ballot, or do you mean you didn’t notice that part of the article, or do you mean something else? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/237 "2018-09-01T17:49:48Z")
> [@](#): > > You get people to stop demanding my personal view; I’ll stop offering it. Oh,\* Hell\*, no! That stuff about nobly protecting the rights of states that have more dirt than people, that was fuckin’ _awesome_! Classic **Bricker**! Definitely in the running for your Greatest Hits compilation! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/238 "2018-09-01T19:03:02Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I, for one, could give two flying eagles whether or not it’s constitutional (and don’t know enough to have an opinion on that). It clearly breaks Democracy, and so is morally and philosophically wrong. > > Furthermore, if legislators are going to play hardball in the open with this sort of thing, then we clearly need legislation to shut that shit down. > > Bottom line “I’m drawing a map to _ensure_ that my party gets 77% of the representation in the house while only receiving 53% of the vote” is evil-villain level, anti-Democratic scheming, and we should all be against it on **principal.** **Principle**. Your argument is invalid. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/239 "2018-09-01T19:08:39Z")
Bullshit. I can ask, but I’m like 99% sure my principal is against it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306/240 "2018-09-01T20:59:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Me too. But in this venue, I don’t care to share my personal opinions. They are of no relevance. Could I trouble you, as a personal favor, to clarify your meaning as to the phrase, _“in this venue”_? Ta. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-federal-house-districts-unconstitutionally-gerrymandered/806306.md?page=13)