# NC legislature at it again **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 15, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772 "2016-12-15T13:52:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/21 "2016-12-15T21:15:40Z")
And after declaring earlier this morning that all the protestors packing the Capitol are from New England (which, thanks by the way northerners, I didn’t know you could take off work last-minute to catch a flight to our state to protest our legislature, I didn’t know you cared!) they’ve finally responded to the calls of protestors and the immense media coverage: Protestors and media have been kicked out of the capitol building while the shenanigans continue apace. The only way to know what they’re doing is through a buggy audio feed. Someone once told me that the only way the South changes is when federal boots hit the ground. That’s clearly not happening for the next four years. This flippin sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/22 "2016-12-15T21:19:44Z")
[The Twitter Feed of Mel Bough](https://twitter.com/mel_bough), a reporter for [NC Policy Watch](http://www.ncpolicywatch.com/), has on-the-ground coverage of the removal of media and protestors. Apparently the protestors were quiet, but the senate declared their gestures to be disruptive. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/23 "2016-12-15T21:23:11Z")
Did they really say that? That they were flooded by Yankees in a repeat of the War of Northern Aggression? ETA: ninja’d and preempted. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/24 "2016-12-15T21:47:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Did they really say that? That they were flooded by Yankees in a repeat of the War of Northern Aggression? > > ETA: ninja’d and preempted. Southern racists just can’t get over losing the Civil War. George Wallace echoed those words, and the NC legislature has said similar things before. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/25 "2016-12-15T22:07:56Z")
[Arrests have begun](https://twitter.com/ncnaacp?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor). (I’m not terribly upset about that–arresting CD protestors is legit.) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/26 "2016-12-15T22:17:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, then grossly unjust political shenanigans are cool if it is in retaliation? Or is this simply another reminder of the Golden Maxim of Equivalence, that both sides do it? > > Or what? Exactly. Why take protests seriously when those protests are curiously silent or complicit when it’s convenient? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/27 "2016-12-15T22:21:07Z")
Unless they are right. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/28 "2016-12-15T22:28:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Unless they are right. Then protest corruption when it’s on the left and the right. Otherwise, people don’t give a shit because hypocrisy, intellectual dishonesty, corruption, and criminality are now just part of “the game.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/29 "2016-12-15T22:42:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Then protest corruption when it’s on the left and the right. Otherwise, people don’t give a shit because hypocrisy, intellectual dishonesty, corruption, and criminality are now just part of “the game.” So take a stand. Are you for or against that sort of game? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/30 "2016-12-15T22:46:04Z")
Oh gee. I hate it when both sides nominate con man sexual predators for president. I hate it when both sides refuse to consider Supreme Court nominations during a president’s final year in office. I hate when both sides enact voter ID laws with the express intent of suppressing the opposition vote. I hate it when both sides use the debt ceiling as a hostage for negotiations with a president. I hate it when both sides use foreign governments to spy on their political enemies. Well, I would if both sides do any of these things. But they fucking don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/31 "2016-12-15T22:59:23Z")
Interestingly, a GOP spokesperson heckled an NAACP spokesperson at a press conference (I’ve lost the link, if someone finds it that’d be great), asking him if Hunt’s “Christmas Massacre” was okay, or if that was just partisan politics. I’ve lived here all my life, including under Governor Hunt during the eighties and nineties, and I didn’t know about this. Turns out he was talking about something that happened FORTY YEARS AGO in an effort to pull the same lame “You guys are hypocrites!” stunt that **octopus** is pulling above. For the record, then: no, I didn’t post an angry thread about Jim Hunt’s mass firings of Republican appointees in 1976 when I was two years old. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it; I’m a poopy-pants who kicks puppies. That has nothing to do with the central question of whether this sort of shenanigans (including, now, arresting reporters and cutting off the audio feed so that there’s no access at all to what’s happening inside) is acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/32 "2016-12-15T22:59:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … > > Immediately upon adjourning the special session, the Republicans announced that they’d secretly gathered the signatures necessary to call a second special session. No Democrats were told such a session would be called. Last night, during this second special session, [they proposed a ton of bills to neuter the governor office](http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article120832758.html): > > … Here in Illinois we have a reputation of having some nasty politicians. But you! You have got some real mudderfuggers over by you! I hope those asshole fail. Best of luck. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/33 "2016-12-15T22:59:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So take a stand. Are you for or against that sort of game? I hate it. Just like I hate all official misconduct and corruption. I don’t like what the Republicans are doing with President Obama’s rightful ability to nominate a Supreme Court justice. I hate police misconduct and cover ups. I hate state sanctioned, implied or otherwise, prison brutality. I hate no knock warrants. I hate corruption. And you know, the folks who warn about the tolerance of hypocrisy and corruption have a point that is important yet lampooned for partisan purposes. So I don’t have much sympathy when the pendulum not only swings but is amplified. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Oh gee. I hate it when both sides nominate con man sexual predators for president. I hate it when both sides refuse to consider Supreme Court nominations during a president’s final year in office. I hate when both sides enact voter ID laws with the express intent of suppressing the opposition vote. I hate it when both sides use the debt ceiling as a hostage for negotiations with a president. I hate it when both sides use foreign governments to spy on their political enemies. Well, I would if both sides do any of these things. But they fucking don’t. Sorry. You had your chance to fight the good fight but silence when it’s your side means the stakes will be raised and people won’t care to listen to you now. That’s reality. People get fed up and tolerate things they wouldn’t have had because the bar has been lowered over time. It’s incrementalism. Feel free to ridicule slippery slope and equivalence and whatever. But when Trump is sworn in maybe you’ll take warnings a bit more seriously. I didn’t vote for Trump. But I hope he serves as a wake up call. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/34 "2016-12-15T23:04:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Interestingly, a GOP spokesperson heckled an NAACP spokesperson at a press conference (I’ve lost the link, if someone finds it that’d be great), asking him if Hunt’s “Christmas Massacre” was okay, or if that was just partisan politics. > > I’ve lived here all my life, including under Governor Hunt during the eighties and nineties, and I didn’t know about this. Turns out he was talking about something that happened FORTY YEARS AGO in an effort to pull the same lame “You guys are hypocrites!” stunt that **octopus** is pulling above. > > For the record, then: no, I didn’t post an angry thread about Jim Hunt’s mass firings of Republican appointees in 1976 when I was two years old. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it; I’m a poopy-pants who kicks puppies. > > That has nothing to do with the central question of whether this sort of shenanigans (including, now, arresting reporters and cutting off the audio feed so that there’s no access at all to what’s happening inside) is acceptable. You are missing the point! It’s not you, specifically. It’s that in general people behave in this hypocritical fashion. And it can get really ugly once the tribes solidify in their tribal identity. History is remembered in some cases for millennia. The solution, if there is one, is for people to work for justice and fairness even at some expense to their own party or interests. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/35 "2016-12-15T23:06:09Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I hate it. Just like I hate all official misconduct and corruption. I don’t like what the Republicans are doing with President Obama’s rightful ability to nominate a Supreme Court justice. I hate police misconduct and cover ups. I hate state sanctioned, implied or otherwise, prison brutality. I hate no knock warrants. I hate corruption. Thanks. Maybe the time to wag your fingers at other people isn’t right now, then, you think? Maybe you could put your energy into trying to stop bad shit when bad shit happens, you think? Or you could continue trying to change the subject from this bad shit to whatever your hobby horse about “both sides do it” is. Or you could start a separate thread about that hobby horse. Up to you! Edit: > [@octopus](#): > > You are missing the point! I am not. That is a great point, **for a completely different goddamned thread**. Obviously you’ll do what you want, but that point is nothing but a distraction from what’s going on right now. I’d be happy to discuss that question elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/36 "2016-12-15T23:10:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, then grossly unjust political shenanigans are cool if it is in retaliation? Or is this simply another reminder of the Golden Maxim of Equivalence, that both sides do it? > > Or what? I’m sorry. Did I say I approved of what was going on? I must have missed that part of my post. My post was in response to the lame assertion by **Dr. Cube** that the way to avoid what was happening was not to elect Republicans. The whole and sole point was to establish that Republicans established themselves in power, cemented that power, and now were acting much the same as Democrats acted when they were in power, and felt threatened by the possible loss of power. Which might show why North Carolinians as a whole tend to view these measures somewhat cynically. I’m across the border in South Carolina, where the game is simpler because the Democrats don’t have any chance of being in power in the first place, any more. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/37 "2016-12-15T23:11:56Z")
Hey, **Left Hand of Dorkness** , news flash, you don’t get to control how a thread’s discussion goes. You’ve been a member here long enough to know that. Comments on the fact that this particular power grab by the Republicans is a classic tit for tat maneuver (magnitude discussions aside) is certainly legitimate fodder for the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/38 "2016-12-15T23:16:26Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Hey, **Left Hand of Dorkness** , news flash, you don’t get to control how a thread’s discussion goes. Yeah, I probably should have added phrases like > [@](#): > > Up to you! and > [@](#): > > Obviously you’ll do what you want to make it clear that I couldn’t exert control. My bad! Tell you what, can you just reread that post and imagine that those phrases are inserted somewhere in it? Preesh! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/39 "2016-12-15T23:18:43Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > The whole and sole point was to establish that Republicans established themselves in power, cemented that power, and now were acting much the same as Democrats acted when they were in power, and felt threatened by the possible loss of power. While you’re imagining that I wasn’t actually trying to control what people posted, could you imagine that earlier in the thread I asked: > [@me](#): > > could you point to parliamentary shenanigans anywhere near like this prior to 2010? (Edit: to prevent things like how the legislature responded to the Wilmington riots, can we keep it to the last, say, three or four decades of Democratic power?) Granted, I’ve now cited something from exactly four decades ago, so apparently it’s happened in living memory. Is that the last time anything remotely comparable happened? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772/40 "2016-12-15T23:31:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The shoe before was a sandal; this is something like a size 20 Doc Marten with extra spikes embedded in a cement block. > > For real, I’ve lived in this state nearly all my life, and recall nothing remotely similar occurring prior to the Republican takeover. I remember plenty of Democratic corruption, I don’t have a rosy view of the Blue Dogs by any means. But this is something very different. > > If you disagree, could you point to parliamentary shenanigans anywhere near like this prior to 2010? (Edit: to prevent things like how the legislature responded to the Wilmington riots, can we keep it to the last, say, three or four decades of Democratic power?) I will get back to you on this; requires real research which Teh Intarwebz discourage. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-legislature-at-it-again/774772.md?page=3)