# NC social studies teacher - who lets idiots like her teach? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 21, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577 "2012-05-21T02:52:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/61 "2012-05-22T14:24:08Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Not Hicks, Ferraro. And I guess compared to Hicks he was not quite as out there as I thought. 🙂 > When my kids got to HS there were exposed to several teachers that put forth various position and they were expected to research that position and put forth why they agreed or disagreed. Positions like one teacher was a communist, another a libertarian, another a right winger. Agreeing with the teacher was NOT a guaranteed good grade. Whatever your position you had to back it up. It was the backing up of your position that made your grade. IOW the teachers actually wanted these kids to [gasp] think. > I was very happy with that school. A [relevant Doonesbury.](http://www.nedgallagher.com/courses/documents/teaching.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/62 "2012-05-22T14:29:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The video was edited? Can you point to any evidence that it was? > > And sure - she was “filmed modeling terrible debate tactics”. That’s just funny. Grasping at straws? No. He’s pointing out that there’s a possibility, small or not, that there is some context that would explain or mitigate the issue. If, for example, you were to learn that twenty seconds before the video began, she had said, “Kids, let me tell you something: when I was your age, I had a teacher that acted crazy in school, and she got away with it, because no one ever said anything.” “Crazy how?” “Crazy like… OK, I’ll give you an example. Say we were discussing current events like we always do, and I did this:” If you were to learn that this segment preceded the recorded portion you heard, would it change your mind? ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/63 "2012-05-22T16:22:53Z")
A couple of questions… 1.) The “teacher” said that during Dubya’s presidency people were arrested for disrespecting him while president. I paraphrased some so not a direct quote but that was the gist of it. Is this true? 2.) I was wondering about the whole recorded conversation itself. AFAIK or can tell it would seem like she didn’t know she was being recorded. Does this violate any wiretapping law, or some other law? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/64 "2012-05-22T17:07:50Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > A couple of questions… > > 1.) The “teacher” said that during Dubya’s presidency people were arrested for disrespecting him while president. I paraphrased some so not a direct quote but that was the gist of it. Is this true? I don’t recall one specifically about Bush, but a guy was arrested in Colorado for telling Dick Cheney that the Administration’s policies in Iraq were reprehensible. The US Supreme court [heard arguments](http://www.npr.org/2012/03/21/148606249/confronting-the-vp-may-be-impolite-is-it-a-crime) on the case a couple of months back. We discussed the case [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=391205) when it originally happened. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/65 "2012-05-22T17:11:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. He’s pointing out that there’s a possibility, small or not, that there is some context that would explain or mitigate the issue. > > If, for example, you were to learn that twenty seconds before the video began, she had said, “Kids, let me tell you something: when I was your age, I had a teacher that acted crazy in school, and she got away with it, because no one ever said anything.” > > “Crazy how?” > > “Crazy like… OK, I’ll give you an example. Say we were discussing current events like we always do, and I did this:” > > If you were to learn that this segment preceded the recorded portion you heard, would it change your mind? Yes, it would. It would also change my mind if it was revealed that a UFO was hovering over the school, controlling her mind, forcing her to spew ignorant inanities as she was. Yet there are dozens of witnesses to this class, and a bunch of students defending the teacher, saying how wonderful she is in general and how the evil student who was questioning her “set her up” and no one mentioned anything like what you said. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/66 "2012-05-22T17:42:57Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > A couple of questions… > > 1.) The “teacher” said that during Dubya’s presidency people were arrested for disrespecting him while president. I paraphrased some so not a direct quote but that was the gist of it. Is this true? There was also the couple who were arrested in West Virginia in 2004 for wearing anti-Bush t-shirts to a public presidential appearance. Those wearing pro-Bush and pro-Administration garb were not removed. It was, somewhat paradoxically, a July 4 speech which included the following: > [@](#): > > On this 4th of July, we confirm our love of freedom, the freedom for people to speak their minds, the freedom for people to worship as they so choose. (Applause.) Free thought, free expression, that’s what we believe. It’s another incident that we discussed [on these boards](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=266447) when it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/67 "2012-05-22T19:00:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Isn’t it interesting that, as long as nothing is happening to this idiot teacher, some posters are eager to talk about how teachers should get raises. The instant it is suggested that something more than a paid vacation should happen, the minds instantly slam shut and the name-calling starts. I can’t tell if you’re lying or just having trouble understanding the thread. If you’d clarify, I can respond. You may want to reread my posts before you clarify, though. **Terr** , a simple yes or no will suffice: do you think the school ought to complete an investigation before firing her? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/68 "2012-05-22T19:03:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > **Terr** , a simple yes or no will suffice: do you think the school ought to complete an investigation before firing her? Yes. Should the investigation take more than a couple of days? No. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/69 "2012-05-22T19:12:03Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. Should the investigation take more than a couple of days? No. Cool. Unless something odd comes up in the investigation (and I just saw that Breitbart broke the story, so my suspicions just went through the roof), I think we agree. Your original post about the investigation bemoaned that it was even happening, and that’s what I objected to. That said, my suspicion is that she won’t be fired, because we’ve got a system in which low pay is mitigated by hard-to-break contracts for teachers. I personally hate that system; I want teachers to keep their jobs because the pay is awesome and the teachers are awesome, not because it’s crappy pay that you’re guaranteed to keep forever. But our state in its wisdom has gone the crappy-pay-with-job-security route, and that’s going to make it hard to get rid of bad teachers. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/70 "2012-05-22T19:17:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That said, my suspicion is that she won’t be fired, because we’ve got a system in which low pay is mitigated by hard-to-break contracts for teachers. I personally hate that system; I want teachers to keep their jobs because the pay is awesome and the teachers are awesome, not because it’s crappy pay that you’re guaranteed to keep forever. But our state in its wisdom has gone the crappy-pay-with-job-security route, and that’s going to make it hard to get rid of bad teachers. There’s also that pesky “bunch of students defending the teacher, saying how wonderful she is in general” factor. I know we shouldn’t let a person’s overall job performance influence our decision over whether or not to fire a person when we’ve got a bright shiny video dazzling our eyes but some people are going to argue that things like that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/71 "2012-05-22T19:24:00Z")
Yeah, I dunno. That’s a fair point, and ability to teach should be considered. Just being loved by students should not, however: it’s possible for a teacher to be loved by a lot of students, and be totally horrible to a few, and if that teacher is behaving in such a manner, I still want the teacher gone. You don’t get to bully students, full stop. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/72 "2012-05-22T19:48:38Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/73 "2012-05-22T20:02:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your original post about the investigation bemoaned that it was even happening, and that’s what I objected to. Huh? I don’t see any “bemoaning”. Can you quote me on that? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/74 "2012-05-22T20:25:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yeah, I dunno. That’s a fair point, and ability to teach should be considered. Just being loved by students should not, however: it’s possible for a teacher to be loved by a lot of students, and be totally horrible to a few, and if that teacher is behaving in such a manner, I still want the teacher gone. You don’t get to bully students, full stop. I don’t really care about her being “wonderful” or “horrible” to students. She demonstrated utter ignorance of the very subject she’s supposed to teach. She should not be teaching. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/75 "2012-05-22T23:20:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The teacher was [suspended](http://salisbury.wbtv.com/news/politics/73239-classroom-debate-over-obama-goes-viral-teacher-suspended). Too bad she wasn’t fired and the suspension is with pay. > [@Terr](#): > > Huh? I don’t see any “bemoaning”. Can you quote me on that? There you go. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/76 "2012-05-23T00:20:16Z")
Okay…what’s so bad about “teaching to the test?” I’m serious here. I don’t know what’s on the test. I mean, “teaching to the test” is _exactly_ what all of my teachers did throughout my schooling, including college. If you learned how to do math, you passed the math test. If you memorized names and dates, you passed the history test. If you learned, oh, how to play the clarinet, you passed music. Etc. So, really, what’s so bad about it? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/77 "2012-05-23T00:32:44Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > There you go. You said my “original post about the investigation bemoaned that it was even happening”. Yet in the stuff you quoted there is not one word about the investigation. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/78 "2012-05-23T01:06:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You said my “original post about the investigation bemoaned that it was even happening”. Yet in the stuff you quoted there is not one word about the investigation. Try again. You said that it’s too bad that she was suspended rather than fired. But the reason that she was suspended was to allow the investigation to proceed. If you argue that she should have been fired without an investigation—which is what your posts seemed to be arguing—then it is reasonable to infer that you were bemoaning the investigation. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/79 "2012-05-23T01:12:20Z")
> [@Rysdad](#): > > If you memorized names and dates, you passed the history test. Speaking for my own field, which is history, the problem is that memorizing the names and dates is not learning history. History is about investigation, analysis, synthesis, and a level of critical and independent thinking that should, ideally, be transferable to any area of life, and that should produce active and engaged and intelligent citizens. Being able to list the presidents in order, or match up dates and events, does not demonstrate any of those skills. Sure, a certain amount of factual knowledge is a necessary precursor for doing history. If you think that the 13th Amendment came before the start of the Civil War, or that Texas joined the United States after California, that’s going to mess up your larger understanding of the significance of these events. But getting the names and dates right is, for most historians, simply a first step in a process of understanding that is far more complex and nuanced. So, if you want your kids to pass the test, there’s nothing wrong with teaching to the test. The problem is that the tests themselves often reflect distorted priorities and problematic assumptions about the nature of the subject itself, and about the purpose of education. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577/80 "2012-05-23T01:42:32Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Speaking for my own field, which is history, the problem is that memorizing the names and dates is not learning history. Um, yes, it is. At least it’s a start. Anyway, I was speaking in rather broad terms. To clarify a little…what’s wrong with “teaching to age/grade appropriate tests?” You might learn about Hernan Cortes in third grade. You might learn about the Weimar Republic in 8th grade. History is still dates, names and places. Who did what where. The _why_ of what happened can, of course, be part of the teaching, but that part is often subjective, and I’ve never been a supporter or being graded on someone’s _opinion._ Don’t get me wrong. I’m not trying to be snarky. Not at all. > [@](#): > > The problem is that the tests themselves often reflect distorted priorities and problematic assumptions about the nature of the subject itself, and about the purpose of education. This is what I’m asking about. _Who_ determines that the priorities are distorted, and _what_ are the problematic assumptions? What are the questions? Why aren’t they applicable? Specifically. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nc-social-studies-teacher-who-lets-idiots-like-her-teach/622577.md?page=5)