# NCAA basketball thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 10, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546 "2012-11-10T03:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/61 "2013-03-20T12:36:06Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Yeah. I don’t think they can raise the age limit like they have in football as the sports have different physical requirements. But what the NCAA can do is make it obligatory for players under athletic scholarship stay for at least two years. But then they probably need to come up with something equally binding for coaches as well to make it fair…but the NCAA hasn’t really ever been about “fair”, has it? Basketball players are just better at age 19 than they’ve been at that age before. I’m sure the explosion of AAU ball has aided this; top players now play against other top players more often, rather than just area high schools. How would they enforce a two-year minimum without the NBA changing their draft eligibility rules? You can’t stop someone from dropping out. You could penalize the school, as **That Don Guy** mentions, but that seems unwise. If you make the most talented players hot potatoes that coaches don’t want to sign, everyone loses: programs refrain from signing multiple high-level players, which makes the product worse, and top players don’t play with other top players, which makes them worse. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I mean, I don’t care if a player skips college entirely…that’s their decision. But if you commit to a university make it mean something for a couple years rather than the ruse of the “student athlete” that we have now. It’s become so hard to follow college basketball with any level of enthusiasm anymore. Can’t keep up with rosters. In retrospect, it probably would have been better for U.S. athletics to center around club teams instead of high schools and universities, as the ideals of higher education and those of for-profit sports teams are not compatible. It’s probably too late now; and I don’t want to lose my 'Cats in any case. Speaking of…Robert Morris 59, Kentucky 57. Ouch. This season was the brutal hangover after the amazing party that was last year. > [@That Don Guy](#): > > If they really wanted to make athletes stay for two years, then they would bring back freshman ineligibility. That would drive elite recruits to go to foreign leagues for a year, a la [Brandon Jennings](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Jennings#Italian_career). Again, a lose-lose proposition. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/62 "2013-03-20T13:36:01Z")
I really think the current “one year out of high school” rule, while not ideal, is the best it’s going to get. It’s the only compromise that’s reasonably fair to all parties (though admittedly primarily benefits the NBA, but of course they’re the ones with all of the leverage). ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/63 "2013-03-20T16:07:04Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > I really think the current “one year out of high school” rule, while not ideal, is the best it’s going to get. It’s the only compromise that’s reasonably fair to all parties (though admittedly primarily benefits the NBA, but of course they’re the ones with all of the leverage). I could see the NBA bumping the minimum to two years out of high school _if_ there was a parade of Austin Rivers-esque one-and-done busts, particularly taken in high spots. When a guy like Damian Lillard, who played four years of college and is about to win Rookie of the Year, arrives in the league with such a mature, complete offensive game, it highlights how limited the skills of the one-and-done guys are. I blame the right-out-of-high-school and the one-and-done eras, in part, for the decline of the traditional, back-to-the-basket low-post player. Those skills take time to develop, guys like Tim Duncan came out of college with an NBA-ready post game. We just aren’t seeing that anymore. Instead we gets tons of guys with a tight handle, but skills that depend on quality opposition, like post moves, just aren’t developed in a year. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/64 "2013-03-20T16:45:55Z")
Also, Julius Randle expected to announce his college choice here shortly…supposedly narrowed it down to Kansas, Kentucky, Florida, and Texas. It’d take the sting off a rough couple days if he goes with big blue! ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/65 "2013-03-20T17:48:27Z")
…[And he does.](http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21918070/topfive-prospect-julius-randle-will-make-immediate-impact-at-uk) Go Cats. We can be delayed, but not denied. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/66 "2013-03-20T19:42:58Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > …[And he does.](http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21918070/topfive-prospect-julius-randle-will-make-immediate-impact-at-uk) Go Cats. We can be delayed, but not denied. According to what I’ve heard, UK has 6 of the top 18 recruits in the country coming in next year’s class, so…yeah. All five star recruits, too. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/67 "2013-03-20T19:47:40Z")
**Human Action** -Duncan was the last college Sr. to go #1. Further illustrating the point. BTW, Rivers is about 3rd from the bottom in PER. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/68 "2013-03-20T20:41:13Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > (Freshman ineligibility) would drive elite recruits to go to foreign leagues for a year, a la Brandon Jennings. Again, a lose-lose proposition. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > I could see the NBA bumping the minimum to two years out of high school _if_ there was a parade of Austin Rivers-esque one-and-done busts, particularly taken in high spots. If the NBA keeps its “one year out of high school” rule in place, then how is anything that the NCAA does to keep athletes for two or more years not going to result in more Brandon Jenningses? I was thinking about allowing the NBA to draft players out of high school, but they couldn’t actually play for the team for two years - but what team would risk a top draft pick on a player that might end up injured before playing a single NBA game? (Then again, drafting David Robinson under the knowledge that he couldn’t play for two years didn’t hurt the Spurs any - but then, Robinson pretty much had a desk job for those two years. didn’t he?) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/69 "2013-03-20T22:52:05Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > If the NBA keeps its “one year out of high school” rule in place, then how is anything that the NCAA does to keep athletes for two or more years not going to result in more Brandon Jenningses? > > I was thinking about allowing the NBA to draft players out of high school, but they couldn’t actually play for the team for two years - but what team would risk a top draft pick on a player that might end up injured before playing a single NBA game? (Then again, drafting David Robinson under the knowledge that he couldn’t play for two years didn’t hurt the Spurs any - but then, Robinson pretty much had a desk job for those two years. didn’t he?) IIRC he was too tall for ship duty. Frankly, as a family member of many men whom attended the military academies (West Point), it pisses me off when these guys go through the trouble to get nominated, etc to get through what is certainly an elite selection process only to whine later when they discover that they are an elite athlete and want to get out of their obligation. Fuck you, you signed up for this shit, we collectively as taxpayers paid for you to go there, nut up and fucking fulfill your obligation. If Roger Staubach could do it, so can you. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/70 "2013-03-21T01:34:54Z")
> [@FoeGrasIsEvil](#): > > According to what I’ve heard, UK has 6 of the top 18 recruits in the country coming in next year’s class, so…yeah. All five star recruits, too. Yep. Here’s the [ESPNU rankings.](http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/96/class/2013/kentucky-wildcats) UK has the… #1 point guard, Andrew Harrison. #1 shooting guard, Aaron Harrison. #3 small forward, James Young. #1 power forward, Julius Randle. #1 center, Dakari Johnson. #9 power forward, Marcus Lee. It’s gonna be fun on a bun. > [@etv78](#): > > **Human Action** -Duncan was the last college Sr. to go #1. Nope, [Kenyon Martin.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenyon_Martin%5B/url) Kwame Brown went first the next year, and the straight-out-high-school era was upon us in earnest. What stopped it? Busts! Speaking of… > [@etv78](#): > > BTW, Rivers is about 3rd from the bottom in PER. Exactly. If the NBA is to increase the minimum age, we’ll need a lot more Rivers’ and a lot fewer Kyrie Irvings. A run of busts might convince the team owners that they need two seasons to evaluate players for talent, maturity, and work ethic. > [@That Don Guy](#): > > If the NBA keeps its “one year out of high school” rule in place, then how is anything that the NCAA does to keep athletes for two or more years not going to result in more Brandon Jenningses? It won’t, the NBA would have to change. They hold all the cards. Otherwise, the NCAA just drives players to Europe. > [@That Don Guy](#): > > I was thinking about allowing the NBA to draft players out of high school, but they couldn’t actually play for the team for two years - but what team would risk a top draft pick on a player that might end up injured before playing a single NBA game? (Then again, drafting David Robinson under the knowledge that he couldn’t play for two years didn’t hurt the Spurs any - but then, Robinson pretty much had a desk job for those two years. didn’t he?) That’d have to be an NBA rule; why would they enforce an NCAA rule? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/71 "2013-03-21T01:37:07Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > IIRC he was too tall for ship duty. Frankly, as a family member of many men whom attended the military academies (West Point), it pisses me off when these guys go through the trouble to get nominated, etc to get through what is certainly an elite selection process only to whine later when they discover that they are an elite athlete and want to get out of their obligation. Fuck you, you signed up for this shit, we collectively as taxpayers paid for you to go there, nut up and fucking fulfill your obligation. If Roger Staubach could do it, so can you. I think Robinson was a special case, as Wikipedia describes it: > [@](#): > > Robinson was 6 ft 8 in when he was admitted to the Naval Academy, two inches above the height limit, but received a waiver from the Superintendent of the Academy. Robinson considered leaving the academy after his second year, before incurring an obligation to serve in active duty. He decided to stay after discussing with the Superintendent the likelihood that his height would prevent serving at sea as an unrestricted line officer, hurting his naval career, and might make it impossible for him to be commissioned at all. As a compromise, Secretary of the Navy John Lehman placed Robinson in a program for training civil engineers for the Naval Reserves that reduced his active-duty obligation to two years. After graduating from the Naval Academy, Robinson became a civil engineering officer at the Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay in Georgia. He was very keen on a naval career, but was just too big. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/72 "2013-03-21T12:35:54Z")
What I don’t understand is why they granted him a waiver to begin with. If Robinson made it clear that he was seriously interested in a career as a Naval officer he should have been told that it would never happen due to his size. It almost seems like Annapolis did it as a stunt for basketball. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/73 "2013-03-21T12:57:10Z")
His goal was to be in the Navy, not the NBA. He grew 6 inches while he was at the Academy. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/74 "2013-03-21T13:13:41Z")
Any idea if it was possible in 1983 to predict how tall Robinson would get? If not, I can’t fault the Navy for not predicting he’d grow to 7’ 1". ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/75 "2013-03-21T13:39:02Z")
I’m sure they at least suspected he had not reached his full height yet. He was already taller than the 6’6" restriction for entrance to the Academy, but exceptions are made for the basketball program. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/76 "2013-03-21T13:57:43Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > I’m sure they at least suspected he had not reached his full height yet. He was already taller than the 6’6" restriction for entrance to the Academy, but exceptions are made for the basketball program. Kind of a tough situation for the Navy, to have a basketball program \*and \*a height restriction. I’d say the Navy got their/our money’s worth; two years as a civil engineering officer, an Elite Eight appearance, and a lot of extra publicity for the Academy. Safe to say we won’t see another #1 overall pick in the NBA who’s reluctantly departing from a career in the Navy. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/77 "2013-03-23T02:07:54Z")
And Georgetown goes down. Who the fuck is Florida Gulf Coast?? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/78 "2013-03-23T02:27:19Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > And Georgetown goes down. Who the fuck is Florida Gulf Coast?? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/79 "2013-03-23T02:31:29Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > And Georgetown goes down. Who the fuck is Florida Gulf Coast?? This year’s Cinderella? That was a strange finish. Georgetown showed a distinct lack of class on that last (flagrant) foul. I didn’t expect that of them, but they came across as a bunch of spoiled brat thugs. You’re down 10 with less than 20 secs left. Why foul? The FGCU coach’s wife was awesome to watch. She was more nervous than he was! Then, with that last foul, she finally let herself believe. You could almost see it - “We finally get a chance to move out of Ft. Myers!” ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546/80 "2013-03-23T02:33:48Z")
Gotta love single elimination. Anyone can have a bad night (or conversely, a good one). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-basketball-thread/640546.md?page=5)