# NCAA clears way for athletes to profit from names, images and likenesses **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 29, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671 "2019-10-29T21:07:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/41 "2019-10-31T21:01:50Z")
Ooops, mixed up my Dopers. Apologies, I tried to strike it but missed the edit window. Nonetheless, I don’t think pointing out the risk of unintended consequences qualifies as fear-mongering. Free Agency in professional sports did have a massive effect on those industries. Whether it is a net positive or negative can be debated, but it was in fact a colossal change. I’m predicting this will have an even bigger impact…maybe for the better, but I think a lot of what makes college sports generally popular will be gone. We don’t know what will replace it. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/42 "2019-10-31T21:56:11Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Ooops, mixed up my Dopers. Apologies, I tried to strike it but missed the edit window. > > Nonetheless, I don’t think pointing out the risk of unintended consequences qualifies as fear-mongering. Free Agency in professional sports did have a massive effect on those industries. Whether it is a net positive or negative can be debated, but it was in fact a colossal change. I’m predicting this will have an even bigger impact…maybe for the better, but I think a lot of what makes college sports generally popular will be gone. We don’t know what will replace it. Yeah it’s possible things will get worse. Things can always get worse! TM But things aren’t great now and I don’t think there’s any certainty they’ll get worse. And the idea that the college sports industry might suffer doesn’t really cause many people to shed a tear. It’s like arguing that you can’t enforce wage laws on employers or some companies may go out of business. And it’s okay if you mix me up with someone else, there are other “A” posters. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/43 "2019-10-31T22:02:27Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > This is so reductive. Sure, let’s just have groups of 50+ random students buy the gear and hire the refs and take on the liability of playing tackle football. Want to play inter-collegiately, best hire the bus drivers and get hotel rooms too. To hell with any college kid who happens to like the part of the college experience that is going to games, participating in booster squads and pep rallies, and having a cultural touchstone to rally around. Get back in the fucking library! Sounds good to me. Where do I sign? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/44 "2019-10-31T22:25:39Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Yeah it’s possible things will get worse. Things can always get worse! TM > > But things aren’t great now and I don’t think there’s any certainty they’ll get worse. And the idea that the college sports industry might suffer doesn’t really cause many people to shed a tear. It’s like arguing that you can’t enforce wage laws on employers or some companies may go out of business. I challenge the statement that thing’s aren’t great now. The NCAA is most certainly a flawed and generally fucked up organization, especially in it’s upper ranks, yet on balance college athletics still aren’t a barren wasteland of pain a suffering like many folks here are implying. The animus towards the NCAA offices and executives seems to be totally clouding the discussion. Today, there are 150,000 students getting athletic scholarships. Not all are full-rides, but on average kids are getting $20k per year. The full-rides are worth double to triple that at most major schools when you factor in room and board. If you’re a 4-year athlete who graduates you’re getting the cash equivalent of maybe $200,000. That’s real money plus you get an education that comes with a lifetime of increased earnings to boot. Certainly for some players who are getting featured on ESPN every weekend, that’s probably them getting significantly underpaid. But not for most…most aren’t generating the equivalent amount of revenue even in the revenue-generating sports like football and basketball. You could say it’s a socialized program where everyone gets the same thing in spite of their relative contributions. Calling this “exploitation” is a absurd statement. There’s of course the ancillary cultural benefits to the non-athletes on the campus and community. I’m not sure why these people keep getting derided in this thread. What are they doing wrong? Why would you take so much joy in seeing their preferred mode of entertainment taken away? Maybe you don’t value it…but how would you feel about someone gleefully celebrating the loss of a theater program, a music festival or some other beloved event that people care about? Honestly, the tone here is ugly, tribal and bordering on prejudiced. People are casually attacking people who like college sports simply because a very small percentage of the athletes (who they can’t wait shit on for their entitlement and selfishness in almost every other regard) are probably unfairly compensated for their play? WTF? > [@](#): > > And it’s okay if you mix me up with someone else, there are other “A” posters. 😃 Probably…but I laid on the snark so better safe than sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/45 "2019-10-31T22:47:47Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > There’s of course the ancillary cultural benefits to the non-athletes on the campus and community. I’m not sure why these people keep getting derided in this thread. What are they doing wrong? Why would you take so much joy in seeing their preferred mode of entertainment taken away? Maybe you don’t value it…but how would you feel about someone gleefully celebrating the loss of a theater program, a music festival or some other beloved event that people care about? Honestly, the tone here is ugly, tribal and bordering on prejudiced. If there was a theater for young people that brought in millions of dollars and the kids weren’t allowed to get a dime because they were student actors, and couldn’t work professionally because they were too young to be professional actors (in an alternate universe), yes I’d celebrate the demise of that system. Why shouldn’t I? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/46 "2019-10-31T22:54:49Z")
After thinking about it, I guess there really was a place kind of like that. [Peking Opera School](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peking_Opera_School) ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/47 "2019-11-01T00:33:40Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > If there was a theater for young people that brought in millions of dollars and the **kids weren’t allowed to get a dime** because they were student actors, and couldn’t work professionally because they were too young to be professional actors (in an alternate universe), yes I’d celebrate the demise of that system. Why shouldn’t I? Emphasis mine…that statement is a bald faced lie. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/48 "2019-11-01T01:40:38Z")
No; that statement was a bald-faced _hypothetical_. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/49 "2019-11-01T02:17:14Z")
How many dimes are in a full scholarship? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/50 "2019-11-01T10:59:48Z")
> [@divemaster](#): > > How many dimes are in a full scholarship? Zero, unless it includes actual dimes, or I can trade it for actual dimes. The issue isn’t so much the 145,000 students toiling in obscurity in return for a valued scholarship. It’s the 5,000 students who are playing in front of 100,000 fans, broadcast on national TV, who are at the core of an entertainment product worth billions of dollars. Those students get a scholarship that is devalued due to their athletic commitments, and often their lack of academic skills. They are used to promote the school and generate revenues, tossed aside when their usefulness is over, and denied the opportunity to generate earnings from their notoriety. The first two items there are simply business, the last one is selfishness. Selfishness borne out of the enormous amount of control the NCAA and Schools exert over student athletes, far beyond the simple quid pro quo of payment for services rendered. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/51 "2019-11-01T12:51:58Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Oh, and I should add…this new rule could destroy minor league baseball too. If schools are able to pay players, why would any talented 18 year old sign up to ride the fucking bus from Tupelo to Lexington and stay in a shitty Motel 6 when you can get an education and hang out on campus with coeds and stay in a dorm for the same money? Hopefully this disrupts the dynamics that allows minor leaguers to be so severely underpaid. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/52 "2019-11-01T12:53:51Z")
Of the 130 (soon to be 131 with the addition of Tarleton State, which leads us to another point – why are these small schools joining D1 if there is no hope for national success?) D1 schools, only the same handful are dominating on the field from year to year. Alabama doesn’t recruit the same kids that Georgia Southern does. A new pay structure for the athletes _may_ result in greater stratification within conferences but I don’t really give a fuck if Oregon State can’t hang with Oregon because of Nike money. I care that young people are denied their full commercial liberties so that people at Oregon State think they have a chance to win that game every now and then. Fracturing the conference affiliations as they now stand might even be a good thing, if some of the conference game scores I’m seeing are reflective of a dire lack of competitiveness already. Maybe college sports needs a new system, one where schools play their financial peers yet have the opportunity to advance as a result of their success, or be demoted, let’s call it “relegated,” if they can’t hang. If only such a system existed and had proven durable. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/53 "2019-11-01T13:18:18Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > If schools start paying players costs will skyrocket causing those 129 FBS schools to fracture and it will probably end up with ~25 “Blue Chip” schools that sell out games and have mega TV deals paying players. The remaining 100 or so FBS schools will no longer be on TV regularly and will no longer be in the conversation for the top-tier of players and coaches. The costs of running those programs will make them unsustainable in their current form, they will essentially become another non-revenue classification more like what FCS schools are today. This sounds like a bad thing. Luckily for the schools, the NCAA (i.e. the schools) is in charge of who is allowed to pay who, and will certainly ban schools from paying players directly. The very last thing in the world any of these schools want is to sign players to paid contracts. They are being dragged kicking and screaming into allowing players to make any money at all. What this rule does, what it is intended to do, is to relieve the pressure on schools to pay players directly. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/54 "2019-11-01T15:38:38Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Hopefully this disrupts the dynamics that allows minor leaguers to be so severely underpaid. Why would it? It will probably have the opposite effect. Today the ability to play college ball is the market pressure that drives up professional minor league deals. If it collapses it certainly won’t increase salaries in the pros. If it does become a money machine, it will be for a greatly reduced pool of players creating a bunch of haves and have-nots. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/55 "2019-11-01T15:52:57Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Of the 130 (soon to be 131 with the addition of Tarleton State, which leads us to another point – why are these small schools joining D1 if there is no hope for national success?) D1 schools, only the same handful are dominating on the field from year to year. Alabama doesn’t recruit the same kids that Georgia Southern does. It varies, but the most common reason is that it allows them to claim multi-million dollar awards for agreeing to be the whipping boy in record-padding road games in the power school’s stadiums. One example: [https://www.abqjournal.com/1219846/aggies-agree-to-another-game-at-alabama-in-2021.html](https://www.abqjournal.com/1219846/aggies-agree-to-another-game-at-alabama-in-2021.html) It also is thought to increase applications and enrollment because prospective students value having DI sports on campus. It’s basically a marketing program which generates year round “earned media”. The scores for DI games tend to make the local news which builds a brand and if you play a big-time school you get mentioned in the national broadcasts. Having a program is thought to be cheaper in the long run than buying all that ad space. In the example above, NMSU is going to get a ton of air time when they get thumped by Alabama. > [@](#): > > A new pay structure for the athletes _may_ result in greater stratification within conferences but I don’t really give a fuck if Oregon State can’t hang with Oregon because of Nike money. I care that young people are denied their full commercial liberties so that people at Oregon State think they have a chance to win that game every now and then. > > Fracturing the conference affiliations as they now stand might even be a good thing, if some of the conference game scores I’m seeing are reflective of a dire lack of competitiveness already. Maybe college sports needs a new system, one where schools play their financial peers yet have the opportunity to advance as a result of their success, or be demoted, let’s call it “relegated,” if they can’t hang. If only such a system existed and had proven durable. Maybe, I’d say that’s the optimistic version of the outcome. I could go on a separate rant about the BCS (and now the playoffs) and how it dramatically amplified the stratification we see today, but that’s a different thread. College sports were better when they were more regional, and this will move things even farther away from that time. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/56 "2019-11-01T16:01:40Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The issue isn’t so much the 145,000 students toiling in obscurity in return for a valued scholarship. It’s the 5,000 students who are playing in front of 100,000 fans, broadcast on national TV, who are at the core of an entertainment product worth billions of dollars. Those students get a scholarship that is devalued due to their athletic commitments, and often their lack of academic skills. This highlights another pitfall. If these athletes are able to profit from being an influencer and/or spokesperson, you will expect them to be spread even thinner. Focusing on grabbing as much short-term cash as they can in between practice and school, these kids will have one more pressure that harms their academic performance. As an aside, how long before the first college athletes start trying to make money camming or doing other sex-industry stuff? That’ll be a fun episode of OTL. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/57 "2019-11-01T16:09:19Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Oh, and I should add…this new rule could destroy minor league baseball too. If schools are able to pay players, why would any talented 18 year old sign up to ride the fucking bus from Tupelo to Lexington and stay in a shitty Motel 6 when you can get an education and hang out on campus with coeds and stay in a dorm for the same money? It won’t have any effect. The schools can pay football and basketball players because they get big TV and merchandising deals. Baseball doesn’t have that. Colleges won’t have the money to pay baseball players any more than what they get in the minors. Also, college players lose most of their negotiating power once the graduate. A top high school draftee can always say, “pay me a bigger bonus or I’ll go to college.” Same for a college undergraduate. Once they graduate college, though, they lose all that leverage.\* Further, baseball players in college don’t have the name recognition of players in the big two, so merchandising is not going to bring in much. But if a college is selling bobbleheads and jerseys of their quarterback, it’s just wrong for them to not pay a royalty to the player. I would say that any offers should go through the school. \*The Mets used this fact this year to go way over slot to sign a high school player who insisted on a big bonus or he’ll go to college. To make up, their later rounds were drafting college seniors who had little negotiating power. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/58 "2019-11-01T16:28:46Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > It won’t have any effect. > > The schools can pay football and basketball players because they get big TV and merchandising deals. Baseball doesn’t have that. Colleges won’t have the money to pay baseball players any more than what they get in the minors. It’s a dynamic system, you’re trusting the status quo too much. Because of the economics and the limitations today, this is true. But, things might change. It won’t change fast, but it could change dramatically. Hypothetical. Florida State has a very big football program that brings in a lot of money. Florida State has a big tradition in college baseball and a decent fan base already and thinks it can expand on that and become the 800-pound gorilla of college baseball. They siphon off all the surpluses from football, maybe stealing some from basketball too, and throw it at the top high school prospects and create a college baseball dream team. They promote the hell out of it and win 4-5 straight championships and actually start getting significantly increased fan interest and revenue in the new streaming market. Baseball replaces basketball as the #2 revenue generator ahead of hoops. Cal State Fullerton and UNLV see this and start ramping up their programs, and so on. This is how markets are built, just because one doesn’t exist today, doesn’t mean it can’t change. Hell, maybe the concussion stuff strangles the talent pool and college football dries up of it’s own accord and baseball becomes the safe harbor. Once colleges are able to pay players minor league baseball immediately becomes direct competition, and the schools have deeper pockets and better partnerships to win that fight. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/59 "2019-11-01T17:10:55Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > It varies, but the most common reason is that it allows them to claim multi-million dollar awards for agreeing to be the whipping boy in record-padding road games in the power school’s stadiums. One example: [https://www.abqjournal.com/1219846/aggies-agree-to-another-game-at-alabama-in-2021.html](https://www.abqjournal.com/1219846/aggies-agree-to-another-game-at-alabama-in-2021.html) Those are really ugly games that should never be played for any reason. > [@](#): > > It also is thought to increase applications and enrollment because prospective students value having DI sports on campus. It’s basically a marketing program which generates year round “earned media”. The scores for DI games tend to make the local news which builds a brand and if you play a big-time school you get mentioned in the national broadcasts. Having a program is thought to be cheaper in the long run than buying all that ad space. In the example above, NMSU is going to get a ton of air time when they get thumped by Alabama. I can tell how it drives campus life by those huge crowds for MAC and Sun Belt games. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671/60 "2019-11-01T18:04:39Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Of the 130 (soon to be 131 with the addition of Tarleton State, which leads us to another point – why are these small schools joining D1 if there is no hope for national success?) The obvious answer is, Division I men’s basketball money - about half of which is divided among schools without regard to how well their conferences do in the tournament. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-clears-way-for-athletes-to-profit-from-names-images-and-likenesses/842671.md?page=4)