# NCAA Football playoff thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 3, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759 "2016-12-03T18:30:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/41 "2016-12-08T18:19:43Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > Looks like it’s on 12/31, not 1/1, like the first year. I liked that format, where it felt like old New Years Day, with the Cotton-Rose-Orange-Sugar-Fiesta all day long. > > I wonder why they kept the 12/31? Because 1/1 is an NFL playoff Sunday? That’s part of it (although 1/1 is week 17 of the NFL regular season), but traditionally there have never been bowl games on 1/1 when it was a Sunday, and this not only predates the NFL season lasting that long (I think the NFL championship was always played in December before the Super Bowls started), but pretty much predates professional football. I am assuming bowls didn’t play on Sunday because the Rose Bowl was never on Sunday. I know that the Rose Bowl is never on Sunday because it is the same day as the Tournament of Roses Parade, which AFAIK has also never been on Sunday. The version I heard was, the parade has never been on Sunday since it predates cars, and they were afraid that the parade would spook the carriage-driving horses parked outside of churches. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/42 "2016-12-08T18:33:23Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > For me the big question is what the objective of the playoffs should be. Is it to determine the best team, or to determine a champion? I make the distinction because the best team can lose any given game by having a particularly unlucky day. Including more teams increases the likelihood that a better team will lose to a worse team. The most egregious example of this I can think of is from the NFL, when the Patriots lost to the Giants in the 2007 Super Bowl. Something similar could happen with the NCAA playoffs if more teams get in. Maybe having 6 teams with the top 2 teams having a bye in the first round would be a good compromise system. I think the objective is to determine the team who had the best season, and to do that you need to win. That’s why I like the idea of conference regular seasons feeding into conference championships and those feeding into the 8 team playoff. I also realize that it’s not perfect and some conferences can have multiple great teams so it allows for 2 or 3 at large bids depending on if you want to give one or more of those to a non-power 5 school. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/43 "2016-12-08T21:42:37Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > For me the big question is what the objective of the playoffs should be. Is it to determine the best team, or to determine a champion? I make the distinction because the best team can lose any given game by having a particularly unlucky day. Including more teams increases the likelihood that a better team will lose to a worse team. The most egregious example of this I can think of is from the NFL, when the Patriots lost to the Giants in the 2007 Super Bowl. Something similar could happen with the NCAA playoffs if more teams get in. Maybe having 6 teams with the top 2 teams having a bye in the first round would be a good compromise system. To be honest, if we just want to declare a “best team” the playoff is probably not even necessary. It’s Alabama. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/44 "2016-12-09T17:39:50Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > To be honest, if we just want to declare a “best team” the playoff is probably not even necessary. It’s Alabama. Yep, just like the 2015 NC. Alabama won that game, right? ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/45 "2016-12-09T18:29:33Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Yep, just like the 2015 NC. Alabama won that game, right? I don’t think it was as clear cut that year. Regardless, you prove the point. Why did Ohio State even play Penn State this year? Penn State won the game but almost nobody believes they’re the better team. If Alabama loses a playoff game in bizarre fashion this year, they won’t be the champion but I bet a lot of folks will still consider them the “best” team. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/46 "2016-12-09T19:17:43Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > For me the big question is what the objective of the playoffs should be. Is it to determine the best team, or to determine a champion? I make the distinction because the best team can lose any given game by having a particularly unlucky day. Including more teams increases the likelihood that a better team will lose to a worse team. The most egregious example of this I can think of is from the NFL, when the Patriots lost to the Giants in the 2007 Super Bowl. Something similar could happen with the NCAA playoffs if more teams get in. Maybe having 6 teams with the top 2 teams having a bye in the first round would be a good compromise system. The goal is to have a Champion. A “Champion” isn’t always the “best” team. But, then again, how do you decide which team is really “best” if the team doesn’t play it’s competition for that accolade? I mean, all respect to Alabama (and as you know from prior postings in this thread, I think they’re the best team in college football this season), but it **could** be the case that they’re just benefitting from a really weak SEC this season; I mean, they thrashed SoCal back when the Trojans didn’t have their act together, but after that, outside the SEC, they’ve beaten such limelights as Western Kentucky, Kent State, and Chattanooga. :dubious: So maybe when they meet up with The Ohio State University’s football team in the Championship, their flaws will be exposed. Or, maybe they are a “better” team, but they just end up not winning that particular day. Who knows? Football is a bit problematic when it comes to crowning a champion. Other sports have more games at their disposal to determine who is/was the best. Baseball plays 162 games in a season; no offense to the Cleveland Indians, but had they managed to hold off the Cubs, that wouldn’t have meant they were better this year, given the relative results of the all-season competition. The NBA and the NHL play 80+ games; at the end of that we have a pretty good idea which team was the best for the season. Even the English Premier League plays a complete double round-robin schedule (home and home), so the team at the top at the end can truly be considered the best for the season (amazingly enough, that was Leicester City FC last season, though most would be hard pressed to explain how they really were the best team). But the NFL plays 16 games, which doesn’t even let the teams in each conference play a complete round-robin in the conference. So yeah, in 2007, the Patriots were clearly a cut above everyone else, based upon 16 games, but there were three teams with 13 - 3 results, and whose to say that, had the NFL run a complete round-robin that season, those teams might not have managed to finish above the Patriots? Even the New York Football Giants might have managed it (though coming from 6 games down would have been hard). The NCAA plays only 12 games, and most conferences don’t even have complete round-robins (I remember that used to be one of the advantages of the Pac-8/10 and the Big 8, was that they DID play complete round-robins, when the Big-10 didn’t, when it came to determining conference champions). So comparing Alabama this season to Washington is completely subjective; there’s no objective measure (like head-to-head result, or results against _multiple_ common opponents) on which to base an opinion. You simply cannot argue what team is “best” on such a record without there being substantial dissent deriving from the lack of objective evidence. The NCAA manages to crown champions in the other three divisions of its participating football members. They may not always be the best team in the nation that season (though I think few would question the credentials of Mount Union, for example, in the years it has won). Given that determining the “best” team is not possible through the limits of scheduling for football, determining a “champion” will have to suffice. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/47 "2016-12-18T00:29:31Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Thoughts on the Div II playoffs: > > These are already done with three rounds. Semifinals on Dec. 10, final on the 17th. > > Northwest Missouri St. is the odds-on favorite to win it all for the third time in four years. They play a very good Ferris St. (Big Rapids, Michigan), which has been dominating so far, including in today’s win against perennially good team Grand Valley St. So I don’t think that’s a gimme; could be an upset for Ferris St. > > North Alabama plays Shepherd in the other semifinal. I don’t think that Shepherd are going back to their second straight final game. > > The winner of the first game will beat North Alabama, I predict. Well, this went pretty much according to form. NW Mo. St. are the winners, 29-3 over North Alabama. Ferris St. didn’t put up as much of a challenge as I thought they would in the semi-finals; Shepherd didn’t win, either. So this one goes 3-0 for me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/48 "2016-12-18T00:43:03Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Thoughts on the Div III playoffs: > > This could be the first year since 2004 (!) that neither Mount Union nor Wisconsin-Whitewater play in the Amos Alonzo Stagg Bowl. Those two teams have been the finalists 9 of the last 11 bowls, and both times they weren’t, Mount Union was there against someone else (St. Thomas of Minnesota last year). But Wisc.-Whitewater are already out, losing today to John Carroll, and while Mount Union is still in (big winners today against Alfred), they (gasp!) _actually lost a game this year_, which makes them quite suspect as eventual champions. They play Mary Hardin-Baylor in the semifinal, and I won’t predict them to lose, but it wouldn’t shock me. > > The other semifinal involves the team that knocked out St. Thomas of Minnesota (Wisconsin-Oshkosh, B’gosh!), and the team that knocked out Wisc.-Whitewater (John Carroll). That’s a toss-up in my opinion; both teams lost once in the season, neither team is dominating its playoff games, and neither team was the top seed in their bracket. I’d probably give Wisc.-Oshkosh the nod; they did beat the perennial second-favorites after all. > > If Mount Union wins the semi, it will win the final. If it doesn’t, I think the team that wins the other semi will win it all. This did not go to form at all! :eek: Mount Union did, indeed, lose to Mary Hardin-Baylor last week, 14 - 12. That included a Hail Mary that was completed by MH-B, and a failed 2 pt. conversion late in the game by Mt. U. The last time that Mount Union didn’t play in the Amos Alonzo Stagg Bowl was 2004! They were on a 19 for 23 run of playing in that championship game. We’ll see if a year off does them any damage. Notice that, while I didn’t predict this, per se, I had a strong suspicion. In the other semi-final, Wisc.-Oshkosh did beat John Carroll. So I got that right. Today, in the Amos Alonzo Stagg Bowl, Mary Hardin-Baylor did what they’ve been trying to do for some time: win the Div III Championship (they lost in 2004). They took down Wisc.-Oshkosh 10-7 in what must have been a scintillating display of offensive firepower. The fact that the temperature was in the 40s must have helped. Sadly, I predicted that Wisc.-Oshkosh would beat MH-B, so I was only 1-2 in this division. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/49 "2016-12-18T18:35:46Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Thoughts on the Div I - FCS Playoffs: > > We’re already two rounds done today. Teams ranked 3, 6 and 7, all of whom had byes the first round, are gone after one game (sad to see The Citadel go down, but happy to see Wofford be the ones to win and go through!). Predictions from here are: > > North Dakota St. will knock off South Dakota State, thus winning the “Frozen North” title (North Dakota already knocked out. They will then play the winner of the toss-up between James Madison and Sam Houston St., and will win that game, to make the final. > > In the other half, I think Youngstown St. beats Wofford, in the matchup of unseededs. Eastern Washington will brush off the game challenge of the Richmond Spiders. Eastern Washington will then roll over Youngstown St. > > In the final between North Dakota St. and Eastern Washington, I predict an upset, with the Eagles taking it all. THIS one has been a complete blowup. I was right about the quarter finals. So 3-0 there (I didn’t call the JMU-SHS game). But North Dakota St. got sent home by JMU. Then, in the nightcap, EWU took a 31-20 lead over Youngstown St., then let their opponents back into the game. The game ended on a last-second catch by Youngstown St. in the back of the endzone, where the receiver trapped the ball against the back of the defender with his arm and held it there for the catch, winning 40-38. So the final will be JMU v. Youngstown St. I am out of predictions; clearly this division is up for grabs. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/50 "2016-12-26T12:43:56Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I had no idea Old Dominion had a football team, much less in D1 FBS. Yep! Their first iteration was from 1930-41, and they didn’t have a football team again until 2009. They had great success in FCS, and moved to the FBS (and Conference USA) in 2014. This was only their second year of bowl eligibility, and they were co-winners of their conference division, winding up in their first-ever bowl game, the Popeyes Bahamas Bowl, which they won 24-20 over Eastern Michigan. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/51 "2016-12-30T11:42:41Z")
I think that Alabama and Ohio State are probably the favorites but there are scenarios in which I could see Washington and Clemson pulling off upsets. Alabama’s strengths are its versatility on offense and its run defense. Washington likes to use the running game to set up the pass but that’s going to be tough against the Tide, so I suspect that Peterson will go to his bag of tricks and try to use reverses and gadget plays to spread Alabama’s and LBs so that they don’t play so close to the line. If Jake Browning can connect with some big pass plays early maybe they can keep Alabama on their heels a little. If you look at the box scores it’s easy to conclude that the Tide is an offensive juggernaut but the defense actually sets up a lot of the scoring with turnovers and good field position. If Washington can execute ‘bigly’ in critical situations and, more importantly, avoid turnovers, they could make this interesting. The Huskies have a solid defense so it would be interesting to see how Bama’s freshman QB handles the big stage if the game is in doubt in the 4th Quarter. All of that said, I think the game will ultimately come down to the fact that Alabama probably just has better players who will force mistakes and gradually wear Washington down. The Clemson - Ohio St game is harder for me to pick because both teams are capable of feeding off of the other team’s weaknesses. Clemson scores a lot of points but they also allow a lot of points and yardage on defense. Ohio State has a pretty stout defense but they’re not a particularly productive offense. I think Ohio State was fortunate to win their game against Michigan, but Clemson got beaten by a pretty mediocre Pitt squad and had to hang on against Virginia Tech. I like Clemson’s athleticism and talent – they’re loaded with potential NFL draft picks. But Ohio State is also quite talented and they have played better competition. They’ve been tested harder. For that reason, I like the Buckeyes to perform better in this game. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/52 "2016-12-31T04:56:37Z")
Florida State! Florida State! Florida State! WOOOO! ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/53 "2016-12-31T05:01:05Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Florida State! Florida State! Florida State! WOOOO! 😃 Relevant to this thread exactly how? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/54 "2016-12-31T06:20:02Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > 😃 > > Relevant to this thread exactly how? 😛 “Football am my life. I loves football.” 😃 Sorry for intruding on the thread; I was just happy and excited by the win! ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/55 "2016-12-31T14:17:54Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > 😃 > > Relevant to this thread exactly how? 😛 I see the smiley, but it is a little bit relevant in the sense that Michigan was on the bubble to be a playoff team and then couldn’t beat FSU. The Big10 has a horrible bowl record right now which might argue that maybe all those wins against other Big10 teams are losing their shine. Current Conference Bowl records: AAC (28.5%) Record: 2-5 (Done) ACC (75%) Record: 6-2 (3 remaining) Big 10 (33%) Record: 2-4 (4 remaining) Big 12 (60%) Record: 3-2 (1 remaining) CUSA (57%) Record: 4-3 (Done) MAC (0%) Record: 0-5 (1 remaining) MWC (50%) Record: 3-3 (1 remaining) Pac-12 (50%) Record: 2-2 (2 remaining) SEC (43%) Record: 3-4 (5 remaining) Sun Belt (80%) Record: 4-1 (1 remaining) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/56 "2016-12-31T15:13:54Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Florida State! Florida State! Florida State! WOOOO! By which, of course, you mean “Michigan lost! Michigan lost!” - A Columbus native 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/57 "2017-01-01T03:37:19Z")
Hahahahahaha! Suck it, Urban! Hope the Trojans finishing serving the Big10 a big ole helping of complete loser pie. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/58 "2017-01-01T13:38:10Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > The Big10 has a horrible bowl record right now which might argue that maybe all those wins against other Big10 teams are losing their shine. And if it was a 8 team playoff, some people would have been lobbying for 4 B1G teams in the playoff tOSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn St. Buckeyes looked horrible last night. I expected Clemson to win, but I didn’t think they would be dominant. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/59 "2017-01-01T14:46:08Z")
Neither playoff game was particularly entertaining. Bama gave up the one early TD, and then scored 24 unanswered. It never really looked like Washington was going to make a comeback. Ohio State got blown out. Hoping for a better game in the final… ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759/60 "2017-01-01T23:21:18Z")
That Clemson won wasn’t necessarily a total surprise (though I picked OSU), but I really thought Ohio State would at least…SCORE!!! I thought Ohio State was putting the Big10 back on the map, but for the second straight year that conference has been thrashed in the playoff. Looks like the Big10 is going back to being a pretender conference – guess we’ll know more tomorrow when PSU takes the field. One thing I’m going to say with some confidence: the South, from the Carolinas to Texas, produces the best football players in the nation. The ACC and SEC own college football. That’s not to say that you can’t find good players, and occasionally good teams, elsewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ncaa-football-playoff-thread/773759.md?page=4)