# NEA on Sept. 11 - don't go blaming anybody, but criticizing U.S. or yourself is OK **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 19, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614 "2002-08-19T17:02:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/21 "2002-08-20T02:58:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Nothing matters until a judge and/or jury says it matters. For purposes of convicting someone for a crime, I agree. In any other context, that’s a ridiculous position, especially regarding Sept. 11. With that logic, Adolf Hitler never did anything wrong. Neither did Jack the Ripper. And all Al Capone was guilty of was tax evasion ---
**Author:** ![Diff\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@Diff\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diff_T)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/22 "2002-08-20T07:51:44Z")
So you can either be flat out honest with your kids, and give them all the information you can. I know it’s difficult placing blame on Bin Laden, seeing that there’s SO little evidence that he had anything to do with this. Even suggesting the **possibility** of his involvement to your kids would seem a bit judgmental and premature, but I JUST think it’s the way to go. I don’t want to use a sugarcoat while teaching my children these types of things. I think using scapegoats, and not giving my children the **full** story, can do more harm than good. I wouldn’t want them growing up with a false sense of reality. Just make sure to talk to them about not placeing blaim on certain types of people, and make sure they understand. Talk about US, and what we did that may have been a factor in all of this. Just don’t be opinionated, give them the straight dope. BTW, this seems like a lame scapegoat. If you only focus on “self blame” they may think that we were “responsible” for this. Or more so than they should think. Is that comforting!? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/23 "2002-08-20T10:33:59Z")
Do you suppose the NEA would be so forgiving if the issue were, say, the cutting of educational funding? :rolleyes: Admittedly, much of what caused 9/11 is over a child’s head, but I seriously doubt that many kids would have trouble understanding that there are _certain_ people in this world who are just not nice and they are not necessarily representative of humans in general. If a kid can realize that an adult in the form of a stranger is someone they shouldn’t talk to, but that say, a cop, whom they may not know is totally safe, then I think that kids can grasp that there are certain people of Middle Eastern descent who are dangerous to Americans and that there are others who are not. I mean, it’s not like we’ve stopped talking about Nazi Germany for fear that kids will think that the current population of Germany is just as evil. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/24 "2002-08-20T10:44:27Z")
\>\> much of what caused 9/11 is over a child’s head So the solution of the NEA is to throw in stuff that’s even more over the child’s head like the internments of the Japanese and the A-bombs over Japan. Now _that_ ought to clarify things a lot! I’m surprised no one has yet come up with the stereotype “but they are underpaid”. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/25 "2002-08-20T11:18:36Z")
oops. I appear to have brought a shitstorm down on myself. I’m sorry, I meant to address my comment to WV\_Womans head in sand attitude to public education. I did not mean to put words in your mouth. I agree that it should not be included in a Rememberance Day section. My Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/26 "2002-08-20T20:46:30Z")
I’m trying to figure out whether more than one or two posters actually followed **Milo** ’s [second link](http://www.jfku.edu/psych/parents.html) - including Milo - and read what was there. That’s the Reviled List itself, rather than the Washington Times’ cut-and-slant. I’m reading it, and I’m reading the posts here, and I’m at a loss to figure out what the posts have to do with the list, or with the NEA’s overall classroom approach to September 11. For the Reviled List is just one component of the NEA’s commie pinko bleeding heart treatment of September 11. For instance, these Quislings have a link to resources on “[The War on Terrorism](http://neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/september11/materials/nmwot.htm)” that they propose teachers make use of. It includes the homepage for the Department of Homeland Security, the CIA’s main page on terrorism, the CIA Director’s testimony to the Senate this February about the war on terrorism, and a CNN special report on the subject. It introduces the links to these sites with the paragraph: > [@](#): > > In the nearly one year that has followed the tragic events of September 11th, the United States and its allies have waged an international war on terrorists and those that support them. Though it is beyond the scope of this site to discuss the War on Terrorism in detail, here are a few key links to provide an overview on Afghanistan, Usama Bin Ladin and the al-Qa’ida network. How insiduous they are! They’re using the CIA and Tom Ridge to turn our children into little leftists and America-bashers. When the fifth column within our borders is this cunning and diabolical, where is there any hope? Now, back to the Reviled List, and its place in the NEA’s overall plan to erode our fighting spirit. The Reviled List is almost entirely about one thing: keeping kids here in America from “fighting terrorism” by beating up on Muslim kids, or kids of Arab descent, or who look like they are. I strongly believe that has a place in the classroom approach to September 11. The Moonie Paper makes it sound like it’s the whole ball of wax, but my links above show that that impression is misleading. It starts off with a list of nine “Key Messages”, and I challenge any one of you to explain to us what’s wrong with a single one of them. (Excerpts in a sec.) Then there’s the list of twelve “Tips for Parents and Teachers,” which seem to be pretty much in the spirit of the Key Messages. There’s a couple of mildly questionable things, in context - but if you rip them out of context, and provide a new one of your own, they can look pretty ridiculous. (And, IMHO, that’s exactly what the Moonie Paper did, and the posts here have pretty much been hook-line-and-sinkered by its spin. Sheesh.) Finally, there’s three “Additional Tips for Schools” that I fail to see any problem with, though I’m open to being educated. Here’s how the Reviled List starts off: > [@](#): > > **1. Violence and hate are never solutions to anger.** > The terrorists caused tremendous harm because they acted violently against innocent people out of blind hate. We must not act like them by lashing out at innocent people around us, or “hating” them because of their origins. Hard to argue with that. “Acted violently against innocent people out of blind hate” doesn’t exactly soft-pedal what the terrorists did, either. That’s right up top. Find it in the Moonie Paper story. Go ahead, find it. The passage > [@](#): > > In this country, we still believe that all people are innocent until solid, reliable evidence from our legal authorities proves otherwise. as **xenophon41** has pointed out, is immediately preceded by > [@](#): > > Blaming is especially difficult in terrorist situations because someone is at fault. However, explain that all Arab-Americans are not guilty by association or racial membership. Help kids resist the tendency to want to “pin the blame” on someone close by. Does that give a better clue of its meaning? This isn’t about waiting for a jury verdict on Al-Queda or the Taliban; it’s about the towelhead down the street. Only a moron - or a right-winger, but perhaps I repeat myself - could reach the opposite conclusion, given the context. But the Moonie Paper has no trouble with that, even rearranging the paragraph to make it come out the ‘right’ way. And maybe it’s just me, but I found the bit about ‘self-blame’ to be a flag to educators that _understood_ it was bad, but was explaining why kids tended to do that: > [@](#): > > understand that self-blame may be a way for students to fell [sic] “in control” Remember, this is a professor of psychology talking. When parents divorce, what often happens? The kid blames it on him/herself. Nobody needs to state that this is Not A Good Thing; understanding why kids do it isn’t encouraging it or condoning it. Same here, in my reading. As for this one: > [@](#): > > **10. Discuss historical instances of American intolerance.** Internment of Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor and the backlash against Arab Americans during the Gulf War are obvious examples. Teachers can do lessons in class, but parents can also discuss the consequences of these events and encourage their children to suggest better choices that Americans can make this time. I’ll be damned if I can see how this one constitutes “a decidedly blame-America approach,” in the Moonie paper’s wording. Unless any reference to past mistakes, and thinking of how to avoid them now, is ‘blame’ - but in the Bizarro World of far-right logic, the two are equivalent. (Y’know, I’ve been getting to work a bit late the past couple of mornings. Maybe I should set my alarm to wake up about ten minutes earlier. NO - that would be a ‘blame myself’ approach - I’d be admitting that I set the alarm for the wrong time. Can’t do that!!) I’m in an America where we’ve long ago acknowledged that interning the Japanese-Americans in WWII was wrong. What part of this is ‘blaming America’ - observing the existence of that consensus, mentioning that the present situation has the potential for analogous behavior on our part, or acknowledging that being on guard for such behavior is the best way of preventing it? Help me out here, guys. The Reviled List has more America-bashing, such as: > [@](#): > > **8. Identify “heroes” of varying backgrounds involved in response to the attacks.** These include fire fighters, police officers, rescue workers, military personnel, public officials, medical workers, construction crews, engineers, and regular citizens who are volunteering their time, perhaps even risking their lives, to help victims of the attacks and restore the country to normalcy. Or: > [@](#): > > **5. Vengeance and justice are not necessarily the same.** Everyone wants the terrorists punished. Our government is working to identify who they are and how we will bring them to justice. Justice means punishing the real perpetrators, not innocent people. Hurting our classmates and neighbors will not make us safer, stop the real terrorists, or help punish them. It will only add to the hate and anger, increasing the risk of further violence. Gotta keep an eye on the “Blame America” crowd every minute, I tellya. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/27 "2002-08-20T21:30:39Z")
[nitpick]The National Education Association should be abbreviated “nea” so as not to be confused with the NEA - the National Endowment for the Arts. The two get enough mis-directed mail as it is.[/nitpick] [sub]This post was brought to you by a former NEA mailroom employee. We now return you to your previously scheduled thread.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![stofsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@stofsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stofsky)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/28 "2002-08-20T21:32:38Z")
But, **RTF** , this is the NEA, for cryin’ out loud! Them’s _liberals_, and by definition can’t have a good idear. ‘Cause, ya know, like **Tuckerfan** said, this is about cuttin’ edyoocashanul funding, right Scarecrow (I’ll miss you most of all). Really, **RTF** , how dare you bring logic, reason, or moderation into a thread that includes education, unions, tolerance, or **WV\_Woman**? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/29 "2002-08-20T21:40:56Z")
FYI the American Federation of Teachers just came out against these NEA recommendations. > [@](#): > > A spokeswoman for a rival union, the American Federation of Teachers, said such suggestions are inappropriate and could be misinterpreted by teachers. > > “We just don’t think it is the best way to help teachers figure out instruction on 9/11,” said AFT spokeswoman Janet Bass. [http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/504797p-4023791c.html](http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/504797p-4023791c.html) > [@](#): > > ## **Rufus T.** quote: > > 1. Discuss historical instances of American intolerance. Internment of Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor and the backlash against Arab Americans during the Gulf War… > > * * * > > I’ll be damned if I can see how this one constitutes “a decidedly blame-America approach,” It’s obviously a blame-America approach, because it’s such an inapt analogue. As **sailor** pointed out, it’s questionable whether any analogy would be helpful to the students. But, if you want to use one, consider what happened on 9/11. Al Qaeda killed a bunch of people without warning, even though no war had been declared. This is nothing like the internment of Japanese Americans during WW II or prejudice against Arabs during the Gulf War. Much closer analogues from WW II would be Pearl Harbor or the German Blitzkrieg in Belgium. Why didn’t NEA recommend teaching these events? Because then they wouldn’t be blaming America. ---
**Author:** ![stofsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@stofsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stofsky)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/30 "2002-08-20T23:52:53Z")
**december** , the AFT is the right-wing analogue of the left-wing NEA. Somewhere in the middle, you’ll find the average teacher (and in a **decemberesque** moment of anecdotal evidence for my bona-fides, I will state that my grandmother, my mother, and two of my aunts were/are elementary teachers, and I was one mere semester from my English Ed degree when I changed majors in my BA). Children, let’s make this simple. The point behind the NEA lesson plans is so that _children_ don’t tell little Muhammad that he’s going to get his ass kicked after school because he has an olive complexion and a hooked nose. Discussion of internment and backlash agains Arab-Americans is definitely in order, as there are one or two assholes out there who think that those with olive complexions and hooked noses need to be strip-searched at every opportunity, just as there were some (with a lot of power) who thought that everyone with slanty eyes and yellow skin needed to be behind barbed wire. Pissants all: we can teach our children that what Al Queda did was horrific and wrong at the same time that we say “never again” will we react against people merely because of their coloring, genetic characteristics, religion/lack thereof, etc. Oh, and to address **december** directly, what analogue would you draw to the concentration camp at Gitmo? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/31 "2002-08-21T01:57:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > As **sailor** pointed out, it’s questionable whether any analogy would be helpful to the students. Obviously that depends on the age of the students. I wouldn’t discuss the WWII internment with fourth graders. But with high school juniors, sure. > [@](#): > > But, if you want to use one, consider what happened on 9/11. Al Qaeda killed a bunch of people without warning, even though no war had been declared. This is nothing like the internment of Japanese Americans during WW II or prejudice against Arabs during the Gulf War. Much closer analogues from WW II would be Pearl Harbor or the German Blitzkrieg in Belgium. Holy shit, I guess I _was_ repeating myself. Let’s make this **really** simple: 1. September 11 \<—\> Pearl Harbor 2. Jumping on Arab/Muslim-looking people \<—\> Internment of Japanese-Americans **Objective:** avoid step (2) this time around. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/32 "2002-08-21T02:10:01Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by stofsky \* > [@](#): > > Really, **RTF** , how dare you bring logic, reason, or moderation into a thread that includes education, unions, tolerance, or **WV\_Woman**? I dunno, I guess I just lost it for a moment, what can I say? And me being such a big believer in a level playing field, too. What _could_ I have been thinking?! > [@](#): > > But, **RTF** , this is the NEA, for cryin’ out loud! Them’s _liberals_, and by definition can’t have a good idear. The weird thing is, I’m a longtime NEA\*-basher. And until I actually _looked_ at their site, I was ready to side with **Milo** on this one. (As Yogi or Casey said - I can’t remember which - you can see a lot by looking. :)) And even on this issue, I won’t say they’re without their usual share of fuzzy thinking, but they sure didn’t do anything to earn the total hatchet-job misrepresentation that the Moonie paper - and many posters here - did on their position. \*[sub]Sorry, **Jeff** , but I figure context suffices here.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/33 "2002-08-21T02:27:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stofsky \*Oh, and to address **december** directly, what analogue would you draw to the concentration camp at Gitmo? The El Conquistador Hotel in Puerto Rico. 😃 \<\\> Don’t you mean the AFT is the _liberal analogue_ of the _radical NEA_? I cannot recall the AFT endorsing Ronald Reagan or even George Bush. 😉 > [@](#): > > **RTF** > > 1. September 11 \<—\> Pearl Harbor > 2. Jumping on Arab/Muslim-looking people \<—\> Internment of Japanese-Americans Good try, **RTF**. However, note that [ul][_]What you wrote above isn’t what the web site said.[_]The 9/11 attack and our subsequent victory was far more inportant than anti-Arab prejudice in the US. [_]The NEA left out something far more important that the US did for Arab/Muslim in Afghanistan. We overthrew a tyrannical government that was murdering thousands of civilians. Our rapid victory permitted food releif that prevent thousands from starvation. [_]The web site didn’t mention the Pearl Harbor analogy, only the American misdeeds.[\*]As has been pointed out, many people would associate the criticism of America with the repulsive idea that the US somehow deserved this attack or had some degree fault. [/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/34 "2002-08-21T03:46:18Z")
Hey RT - I believe I noted in my OP that I agreed with much of what the list had to say. I’ve repeated that two or three times. Therefore, it puzzles me why you are trotting out the things on the list that aren’t unreasonable to make the people critical of the things on the list that are seem unreasonable. I pointed out specifically what I disagreed with, and why. My interpretation of much of it differs distinctly from yours. And I like how you took **another, wholly separate unit** to mitigate the goofy link from my OP. Nobody’s saying everything proposed for Remembering September 11 lesson plans is inappropriate and offensive. I’m saying **Portions of Numbers 4 and 10 from the list I linked are.** It’s interesting that your pooh-poohing of what some see as terribly wrong about this list was silent on possibly its most offensive passage. Feel free to attempt to extrapolate from what’s written. But I don’t see it noted anywhere that the suggestions aren’t being intended to be taken at their face. (Bolding is mine): > [@](#): > > **Do not suggest any group is responsible.** Do not repeat the speculations of others, including newscasters. Do not encourage or allow random blaming; but \*\*understand that self-blame may be a way for students to fell (sic) “in control” (something different they “could have done” or “could do” in the future). \*\* The part bracketed at the end of his passage here indicates to me that this is being considered constructive. It doesn’t say “understand that some students will do this as a way to feel ‘in control,’ and that should be discouraged. Instead, point them to thinking like this …” I find it silly that you say, “Well, it doesn’t need to say that. That’s understood.” If he thinks self-blame is bad, this passage is HORRIBLY worded, at _best_. I think there’s plenty of evidence to suggest he doesn’t think so. If he did, why on earth wouldn’t he have made it clear? He’s the psychologist. He’s providing guidance to teachers and parents. It’s the whole point of the list. Your contention on that doesn’t stand up, IMO. No student in any American public school classroom did a fucking thing to get within a million miles of warranting what occurred on September 11. Neither did any occupant of the World Trade Center, the Pentagon or any non-hijacker on any aircraft involved. If anyone is feeling self-blame, the first sentence of this paragraph should be the message that is hammered home to them repeatedly. > [@](#): > > \*\*(Y’know, I’ve been getting to work a bit late the past couple of mornings. Maybe I should set my alarm to wake up about ten minutes earlier. > > NO - that would be a ‘blame myself’ approach - I’d be admitting that I set the alarm for the wrong time. Can’t do that!!) \*\* No, actually the correct analogy would be if you blamed your getting to work late on the internment of Japanese-Americans in camps during World War II. It has as much relevance to why you’re getting to work late as it does to September 11. The message “don’t lash out at neighbors and classmates who are Arab or Muslim because of Sept. 11” is a good one. LEAVE IT AT THAT. Turning the remembrance of the worst day in American history into a lesson on things **America** has done wrong in the past, things that are completely out of context of the 2001 attack, is FUCKING OFFENSIVE! You also were silent on the fact that it says not to speculate, and not to repeat what’s in the media, as far as assigning blame, but then makes a declarative statement that no governments were involved in the Sept. 11 attacks. And, what december said. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/35 "2002-08-21T09:38:04Z")
I’m not going to buy into this overall debate, I’ll leave you 'Merkins to it, but this bit of the OP caught my eye: > [@](#): > > However, if you want to let people off the hook before all the facts are in, by all fucking means! So as I understand it, first you put people “on the hook” and then if they are proven innocent you let them off? Is that how it works? I must admit I thought I’d heard of a contrary principle enshrined in US ideas of justice, but who am I to say. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/36 "2002-08-21T11:46:36Z")
**Princhester** – The statement is outrageous because it so blatantly misapplies a correct principle. The facts _are_ in about Osama bin Laden’s leadership and al Qaeda’s responsibility for the attacks. There’s all sorts of evidence, including OBL boasting about it on video tape. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/37 "2002-08-21T12:42:33Z")
The least that can be said is that the text we are discussing is so poorly explained and worded that the people who wrote it are totally incompetent as teachers because the job of a teacher is to explain things in ways that are easily and clearly understandable. I say they should go back to picking turnips. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/38 "2002-08-21T12:52:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > Good try, **RTF**. However, note that What you wrote above isn’t what the web site said. OK, it’s what they _clearly implied_, but didn’t spell out in mind-numbing exactitude. > [@](#): > > The 9/11 attack and our subsequent victory was far more inportant than anti-Arab prejudice in the US. Seems like they discuss that elsewhere. > [@](#): > > The NEA left out something far more important that the US did for Arab/Muslim in Afghanistan. We overthrew a tyrannical government that was murdering thousands of civilians. Our rapid victory permitted food releif that prevent thousands from starvation. Ditto. > [@](#): > > As has been pointed out, many people would associate the criticism of America with the repulsive idea that the US somehow deserved this attack or had some degree fault. And they would be retarded. Because only a retard would think that you deserved Bad Thing X on account of what you did _in response to_ Bad Thing X. I can’t help it if there are retards in the world. But we’re here to _fight_ ignorance, not kowtow to it. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/39 "2002-08-21T12:56:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \*I can’t help it if there are retards in the world. But we’re here to _fight_ ignorance, not kowtow to it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614/40 "2002-08-21T13:15:43Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by **Milossarian** (to **RTFirefly** ):_ > It’s interesting that your pooh-poohing of what some see as terribly wrong about this list was silent on possibly its most offensive passage. Feel free to attempt to extrapolate from what’s written. But I don’t see it noted anywhere that the suggestions aren’t being intended to be taken at their face. (Bolding is mine): > > > [@](#): > > > > **Do not suggest any group is responsible.** Do not repeat the speculations of others, including newscasters. Do not encourage or allow random blaming; but **understand that self-blame may be a way for students to fell (sic) “in control” (something different they “could have done” or “could do” in the future).** > > The part bracketed at the end of his passage here indicates to me that this is being considered constructive. > > It doesn’t say “understand that some students will do this as a way to feel ‘in control,’ and that should be discouraged. Instead, point them to thinking like this …” I find it silly that you say, “Well, it doesn’t need to say that. That’s understood.” **Milo** , neither Rufus nor I were “silent” regarding the blame issue. If you wish to ignore the context in which the sentence “Do not suggest any group is responsible” occurs, then feel free to get your panties in a wad, but don’t be surprised when that context is used to defend the suggestion. And I have no idea why you (and apparently **Fenris** ) seem to think “self blame” is being spoken of _approvingly_ in the Reviled List\*. If you think it’s not “understood” or implied that self-blame is a Bad Thing, then show us where it’s understood or implied that self-blame should be encouraged. You can’t, by the way, without attempting to “extrapolate from what’s written”, so be careful not to break any of your own rules. As **RT** said, this is a professor of psychology reminding teachers about a common juvenile response to tragedy, and telling them to _understand_ the response. Now you’re pulling this reminder from smack in the middle of a list of recommended discussion points designed to help kids deal responsibly with their feelings about September 11, and telling us you think the message is “let them blame themselves”?! \*[sub]Thanks for coining the phrase, RT![/sub] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nea-on-sept-11-dont-go-blaming-anybody-but-criticizing-u-s-or-yourself-is-ok/124614.md?page=3)