# Neanderthal extinction **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 25, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202 "2013-10-25T13:03:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/1 "2013-10-25T13:03:19Z")
In his one intelligent specie per planet column [column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3132/why-did-only-one-intelligent-species-evolve-on-earth), Cecil gives a few hypotheses why _H neanderthalenis_ left the scene. One that makes sense to me was that those robust Neanderthal bodies needed more fuel, about 5,000 calories per day vs. about 3,000 for the hardest working _H sap_. Throw in a few seasons’ bad hunter-gathering and they simply got out bred. Robert J Sawyer’s _[Neanderthal Parallax](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Neanderthal_Parallax)_ trilogy explores human and neanderthal societies developing in parallel universes. One interesting detail I remember is that, thanks to their hairier pelts, neanderthals have in their homes a scratching post with a height adjustable peg to take care of that hard to reach spot on the back. I don’t know what they did in public. ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/2 "2013-10-25T13:48:14Z")
In Jasper Fforde Tuesday Next series of novels, the neanderthals are brought back via genetic engineering to be army material, but proved too sensitive for the job. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/3 "2013-10-25T16:29:16Z")
What about dolphins? Sure, some of them are occasionally killed in nets or captured for sea parks, but the rest of them live a life of vacation, swimming in tropical waters, playing and eating sashimi all damn day. By comparison, they are the more intelligent species. ---
**Author:** ![pplepic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@pplepic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pplepic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/4 "2013-10-25T17:36:21Z")
I ma\*\*y not be a scientist, but believe me, I see Neanderthals around us every day. I don’t think they were so much assimilated through interbreeding as that many simply got with the program and intermingled with the “human” humans. So today here we are, some of us “human” some of us descendents of Neanderthal-Cro-Magnum illicit behavior and some of us have ancesters who were registered Neanderthals and proud of it. They _have_ made progess. Many now have dogs. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/5 "2013-10-25T17:51:56Z")
I saw one in uniform directing traffic just yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![knel3030](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecae2f/32.png) [@knel3030](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/knel3030)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/6 "2013-10-25T18:16:55Z")
They walk among us. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/7 "2013-10-25T19:16:10Z")
I would truly like to believe that humans interbred rather than killed and ate each other. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/8 "2013-10-25T19:23:14Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I would truly like to believe that humans interbred rather than killed and ate each other. We’re humans! You know it was both! ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/9 "2013-10-25T20:17:28Z")
According to Paul Levinson’s rather peculiar science fiction/detective novel, _The Silk Code_, Neanderthals still live among us and are secretly engaged in a cold war against the Amish. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/10 "2013-10-25T20:27:22Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > According to Paul Levinson’s rather peculiar science fiction/detective novel, _The Silk Code_, Neanderthals still live among us and are secretly engaged in a cold war against the Amish. That guy must have some time on his hands. ---
**Author:** ![UncleFred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f0a364/32.png) [@UncleFred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleFred)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/11 "2013-10-25T20:49:34Z")
I’m surprised no one has commented that the only intelligent species on earth is dolphins. Humans not so much. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/12 "2013-10-25T22:20:13Z")
> [@UncleFred](#): > > I’m surprised no one has commented that the only intelligent species on earth is dolphins. Humans not so much. Well, **Second Stone** somewhat did, about [4 hours before you did](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16789686&postcount=3). For my part, I’m surprised no one has quoted Douglas Adams: > [@The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy](#): > > Man has always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![PaulLev](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e56c9b/32.png) [@PaulLev](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulLev)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/13 "2013-10-25T23:46:05Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That guy must have some time on his hands. Actually, last time I checked, I didn’t. But I do enough have time to say that whatever wars are going in my novel, they’re not cold. Here’s a [free sample](http://paullevinson.blogspot.com/2012/11/free-thursday-taste-of-silk-code.html) fyi. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/14 "2013-10-26T00:29:44Z")
I think it comes down to symbolic thinking. We have music, art and stories. We can teach our children general lessons through metaphor. Stories and song can teach lessons over several generations. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/15 "2013-10-26T00:37:50Z")
“Normal people duking it out with House Republicans”…is this kind of intolerant, demonizing hate speech really needed? I expect more from you, Cecil. Perhaps you should move to Detroit and tell us of the utopia 50 years of "normal people’ governing has done for a once prosperous city. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/16 "2013-10-26T02:30:24Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > “Normal people duking it out with House Republicans”…is this kind of intolerant, Republicans don’t want the poor to have access to health care. Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee did not want to raise the state minimum wage despite a rise in the cost of living index. They seem like a bunch of selfish wealthy people to me. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/17 "2013-10-26T02:34:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I would truly like to believe that humans interbred rather than killed and ate each other. They could do both. Interbreed, then eat the babies. Like growing your own food. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/18 "2013-10-26T03:27:27Z")
Here’s a twist to consider: The Neanderthals were the first victims of colonization. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/19 "2013-10-26T09:04:36Z")
A couple of corrections to Cecil’s article re gene assimilation from Neandertals: First, 4% is a LOT of genes. You only need a handful of the right genes–perhaps only one or two if they’re really good ones–to drive differences among descendant lines. We do not yet know to what extent the modern eurasian owes a debt to Neandertals. Second, the 4% estimate is not “even less in africans.” It’s essentially non-existent in (sub-saharan) african lines who remained behind and the intermixing with post-M/N haplogroups has been fairly trivial in the ensuing 40,000 years (particularly in southern african lines). ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202/20 "2013-10-26T11:31:55Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > “Normal people duking it out with House Republicans”…is this kind of intolerant, demonizing hate speech really needed? I expect more from you, Cecil. Perhaps you should move to Detroit and tell us of the utopia 50 years of "normal people’ governing has done for a once prosperous city. Or how wonderfully intelligent and ‘normal’ Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters and Harry Reid are. Cecil lost me about 10 years ago. The only reason to come back to this board from time to time, is to see Sam Stone, Shodan and Bricker duking it out with the morally superior types. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-extinction/672202.md?page=2)