# Neanderthal wife beaters deserve... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261 "2009-05-13T06:21:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/61 "2009-05-13T21:48:34Z")
If you’re afraid for your life, fucking LEAVE. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/62 "2009-05-13T22:03:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If you’re afraid for your life, fucking LEAVE. But all those things that you say could apply to women as well. A lot of people say that stuff to abused girlfriends/wives. I agree that interjecting with “Men get abused/raped too!” seems a little out of place, but if you start referring to men as pussies for not leaving/letting themselves get beaten up, a lot of people are going to think that it’s weird that you don’t say that about women. And no one who’s in an abusive relationship should be referred to as a “pussy.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/63 "2009-05-13T22:12:24Z")
It’s not as easy for women, but it drives me crazy when they won’t leave too. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/64 "2009-05-13T22:26:04Z")
I would hit anyone that was threatening me with serious harm. If a five foot woman hits me over the head with a wine bottle and I’m still conscious I would find that justifiable reason for a full strength punch in the face. I don’t think a screaming fight is in any way justification, but we don’t know the details here, the woman could easily be the badguy. I wanna take a try at the ten alternate reasons thing: [ol] [li]She is staying with her sister and they got in a hair pulling drag out fight.[/li] [li]Her husband accidentally elbowed here in the eye while starting the lawnmower and she massively over reacted and stormed out.[/li] [li]She takes a martial art class and got heel kicked across the bridge of her nose. Her daughter got into a fight with her stepdad and the mother thought it was best to be out of the house for the night.[/li] [li]She hit bit her husband in the arm during a fight and he punched her reflexively. He’s spending the night in lockup and she doesn’t want to be home because of the broken windows (she’s worried about the neighborhood).[/li] [li]There are robots from the future after her because her mentally challenged daughter is destined to absorb a plasma burst meant for the savior of humanity while she’s shuffling around during a battle in the tangled wreckage of downtown LA.[/li][/ol] I’m out of ideas. But I’ll agree, it’s most likely some shit-heel beat her. ---
**Author:** ![supergoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@supergoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supergoose)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/65 "2009-05-13T22:53:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s the latter. Some people deserve it. Wife beaters, for example. I certainly don’t hold to a position that no one ever deserves physical punishment. I don’t know anyone who does think that. That’s kind of a straw characterization. > > Where did you get the idea that all opinions have equal merit or deserve equal respect? By your logic, society could never punish anyone for anything at all. Osama bin Laden was of the opinion that 3000 people should be killed in a terrorist attack. Does that mean no one can have the opinion that he should be killed for it? I fail to see your point. > > Wife beaters are scum. By all rights they should be publicly flogged, forced to surrender all material property to their victims, and prohibited from having any contact with their victims or with their children ever again. I don’t want to hear any lawyering about “proof.” The question is not about what wife beaters deserve, not what those who are _accused_ deserve. > > And it’s almost always men abusing women. It’s a load of crap that women do it to men in anything close to the same numbers. Even if they do, it just means the man either likes it or is just a pussy who deserves it for being a pussy. I guess we’re just coming at this with different view points. I don’t believe that violence is ever justified unless it is in self-defense. I didn’t mean that as a strawman, just something I thought we could all agree on. I certainly didn’t mean that all opinions are of equal merit (well, to be specific, I don’t believe that we all have the right to \*act \*\*on \*our every opinion). Simply that that wife beater believes his opinion and rationalizations to be as valid as anyone else’s, so setting the example of violence being acceptable in some cases (subject to your individual discretion) justifies him to behave in the same way (to use his individual opinions and rationalizations to determine if someone deserves physical punishment, just as you are doing, and to act on it). This is why such things are best left to the collective (impersonal) judgment of the justice system. Of course, like any human institution, it is flawed, and thanks to the miracle of empathy, not always impersonal and unemotional, but it’s better than vigilantism. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/66 "2009-05-13T23:05:28Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > But is it never okay to hit a woman? It can’t be denied that there are women who are as coarse and vicious as any men, so if it is okay to go to war when reason fails, why can’t we give someone a hefty smack? Of course it’s not “never okay to hit a woman.” It’s perfectly okay to use physical force to defend yourself against anyone, but there has to be reasonable application of the force necessary to defend yourself. Several years ago, a girl I was dating and I got in a verbal argument. She grabbed a huge butcher knife and “threatened” me with it. I put that in quotes because she was ten feet away from me, hadn’t made any motion towards me, and I knew that she most likely wouldn’t. I was more worried that she would injure herself with the kinife then I was for my safety. In that instance, it would have been unreasonable for me to go over and punch her to get her to drop the knife. If she had gone into a complete looney rage and come after me, my response could have been different, however. I don’t think anybody but the most ardent pacifist would begrudge you the right to reasonably defend yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/67 "2009-05-13T23:11:01Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Is that a law for you as a hotel employee? As a private citizen could you report suspected abuse? As for the law, as a hotel employee, I can’t legally give out information that compromises a guest’s privacy. Without a warrant, I can’t even tell police (or anyone else) the names of my guests, much less room numbers. (Although police can, of course, run license plates to get a good idea of who’s at the hotel. They usually don’t get that bored, though.) And that means that, not having witnessed any crime, I can’t say - even as a private citizen, not an employee - “I think that a domestic violence incident took place at 123 W. Main Street.” Because that necessarily gives away protected information about my guests. Of course, if I suspect that the crime is taking place on the hotel property (hear thuds and screams from one of the rooms, for example,) I can call police to report and give out that information - probable cause and all that. And regarding all of the other possible explanations for my guests’ situation last night, this was a case of hearing hoofbeats and looking for horses, not zebras. As someone else mentioned, there were other cues that weren’t included in the OP: the attitude and posture of the mother, the daughter’s solicitousness of her mom, facial expressions, etc. I’m certainly not saying I couldn’t possibly be mistaken, but I think I heard those proverbial horses. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/68 "2009-05-14T04:20:56Z")
> [@supergoose](#): > > (Look, I understand the anger and that everyone’s being hyperbolic, but I have to say, to threaten violence against the perpetrator of domestic violence is pretty hypocritical. Isn’t the point supposed to be that no one deserves to be physically hurt, not that some people deserve it sometimes depending on what they’ve done? Because if you go by that line of reasoning, you wind up justifying the domestic abuser using violence in the first place. After all, “deserving” is a matter of opinion.) We’re going to teach you that violence is never the answer to your problems, wife beater. WHACK, WHACK, WHACK!!! There, we hope you learned something. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/69 "2009-05-14T04:30:30Z")
There is no objective to teach anything, but to punish. I also don’t see anybody saying “violence is never the answer.” Violence is _often_ the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/70 "2009-05-14T06:24:20Z")
… to overpay for car insurance? ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/71 "2009-05-14T08:01:42Z")
Even more sigh-worthy… I figured out who this woman is. I know her husband, and even like him, in a social sort of way. In my interactions with him, he’s never been anything except very, very nice. This woman’s father-in-law was my uncle’s best friend. I’ve known the husband’s family my entire life. I desperately hope I’m wrong about the original situation. I’m afraid that I’m not wrong, but I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/72 "2009-05-14T10:19:33Z")
I did a case onec, or more accuratly I was a junior on a case, where the facts were that a victim was suing her ex (wh had been convicted on causing actual bodily harm on her) in a civil court after the criminal trial concluded. After two weeks of being with lets say, to paraphrase Chris Rock; I don’t agree with what her ex did…but I can underdsand. Like in many crimes, the level of culpability varies according to the circumstances. And any punishment should be tailored to fit the that. And I don’t think pouring scalding hot cereal on a defenceless (ie sleeping) person is something any one should take lightly. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/73 "2009-05-14T12:06:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no objective to teach anything, but to punish. I also don’t see anybody saying “violence is never the answer.” Violence is _often_ the answer. For a hard guy like you, it is. For those of us who lack your ability to immediately grok justice in any situation and brutally kick the appropriate ass, things can be a bit more complex. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/74 "2009-05-14T12:31:13Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Could either of those happen, though? I’m sure if we found or cloned some Neanderthals, there would have to be court cases to decide whether or not they could legally get married. If they couldn’t, then a Neanderthal couldn’t be a wife beater or a victim of a wife beater, by definition. Well, perhaps we could reanimate a male and female pair of Neanderthals who are already “married”. 😉 Actually, this is kind of an interesting question. Would a cloned Neandertha; even be considered human, or just a piece of property? I’m quite certain the scientists who did it would claim it was the same as a laboratory rat. It might be poked and prodded and tested, and then euthanized and dissected for study. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/75 "2009-05-14T13:14:54Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Like in many crimes, the level of culpability varies according to the circumstances. And any punishment should be tailored to fit the that. And I don’t think pouring scalding hot cereal on a defenceless (ie sleeping) person is something any one should take lightly. Who said anything about taking it lightly? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/76 "2009-05-14T13:40:23Z")
**Diogenes the Cynic** , my God but you’re a stinking load of crap. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > And it’s almost always men abusing women. It’s a load of crap that women do it to men in anything close to the same numbers. 1. Cite? Back up your words, twinkleshit. Especially the “almost always” part. 2. I agree that women abusing men happens less frequently, but when it _does_ happen is it somehow less serious? Just because it happens less frequently does that mean it doesn’t need to be addressed at all? 3. I don’t need no stinkin’ three, you’re still a twisted idiot. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Even if they do, it just means the man either likes it or is just a pussy who deserves it for being a pussy. Just like “the bitch deserved to be slapped”, right? Right, monkeylicker? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/77 "2009-05-14T14:32:25Z")
Ooh…touched a nerve, did I? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/78 "2009-05-14T14:34:56Z")
There is, of course, also domestic abuse between same-sex couples. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/79 "2009-05-14T14:38:41Z")
Definitely. Same-sex DV can actually be some of the worst, and the hardest for vicxtims to find support for. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261/80 "2009-05-14T15:01:42Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > We’re going to teach you that violence is never the answer to your problems, > wife beater. WHACK, WHACK, WHACK!!! > > There, we hope you learned something. :smack: Believe it or not, sometimes that actually works. Sometimes it’s the only thing that works. You can try to reason with a bully or wife beater, and not get anywhere. You may make threats and not get anywhere. If anything you are viewed as a “pussy” for not following through. But once you make it crystal clear that the bullshit is going to stop one way or another, and show you mean it, problem solved. Some people just don’t give a damn, unless and until they realize they themselves are in for a beat down. So we are back to the big bad guy who can only be controlled by a bigger badder guy. Some people simply don’t understand anything else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neanderthal-wife-beaters-deserve/496261.md?page=5)