# Near death experiences **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591 "2012-01-15T12:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/61 "2012-01-17T16:30:21Z")
1. There have been many links in the past to stories about people who have claimed to see a white light and(sometimes) loved one, and I don’t recall you popping up to protest people asking for _those_ cites. 2. I am moderately educated on the subject, and I know that accounts of hellish NDEs are only a small percentage of those that can be found on the web, and most of _those_ are found on true-believer websites recounted by self-proclaimed religious leaders as warnings to the great unwashed. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/62 "2012-01-17T16:36:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. There have been many links in the past to stories about people who have claimed to see a white light and(sometimes) loved one, and I don’t recall you popping up to protest people asking for _those_ cites. That’s because cites are _unneccessary_. No one seriously disputes that NDEs actually happen. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. I am moderately educated on the subject, and I know that accounts of hellish NDEs are only a small percentage of those that can be found on the web, and most of _those_ are found on true-believer websites recounted by self-proclaimed religious leaders as warnings to the great unwashed. I’m talking about the literature, not the websites. Are you saying that your entire knowledge of the subject comes from browsing some websites? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/63 "2012-01-17T16:38:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Here is my comment: I am tired of posters that make claims, then say “_You_ look for the cites.” Sorry, man, but LonesomePolecat is right. Hellish NDEs are all over the place. There’s even [To Hell and Back](http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Back-After-Startling-Evidence/dp/0785275347) which got up to I-don’t-know-where on the NYT best seller list. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/64 "2012-01-17T16:41:44Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > You should not expect others to do your homework for you. You should not expect others to respect your opinions without providing support for them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/65 "2012-01-17T16:48:28Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Sorry, man, but LonesomePolecat is right. Hellish NDEs are all over the place. There’s even [To Hell and Back](http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Back-After-Startling-Evidence/dp/0785275347) which got up to I-don’t-know-where on the NYT best seller list. Surely, with all this evidence around it should be simple to find some cites from a non-biased website with case histories for us us to examine? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/66 "2012-01-17T16:56:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You should not expect others to respect your opinions without providing support for them. You’re quite right. My view here (i.e. hellish experiences are common) is well-supported in the literature, and anyone with even a modest acquaintance with the literature would have known it. Czarcasm’s view (i.e. that hellish experiences are not well documented, coming mostly from prosyletizing fundamentalists) is not supported. The fact that he chose to dispute it shows how little he knows of the subject. When you presume to debate a subject you should have some basic knowledge of that subject, and not expect your opponent to produce cites for things about which there is no reasonable doubt. What Czarcasm did was the equivalent of asking for a cite for D-Day and the Holocaust, when basic knowledge of the history of World War II should have told him that cites are not needed. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/67 "2012-01-17T16:59:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Surely, with all this evidence around it should be simple to find some cites from a non-biased website with case histories for us us to examine? It is not reasonable to expect cites for something you should have known in the first place before you engaged in the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/68 "2012-01-17T17:01:24Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > What Czarcasm did was the equivalent of asking for a cite for D-Day and the Holocaust, when basic knowledge of the history of World War II should have told him that cites are not needed. No it isn’t. By no stretch of the imagination are NDE’s as well known as D-Day and the Holocuast. Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/69 "2012-01-17T17:09:01Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No it isn’t. By no stretch of the imagination are NDE’s as well known as D-Day and the Holocuast. Not even close. Cite? Considering the amount of attention the media have given the subject, I rather doubt that there could be very many people out there who haven’t heard of NDE’s. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/70 "2012-01-17T17:12:16Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Cite? > > Considering the amount of attention the media have given the subject, I rather doubt that there could be very many people out there who haven’t heard of NDE’s. If there is an award for saying “I’ve got nothing” the greatest number of ways, you are certainly in the running. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/71 "2012-01-17T17:24:35Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Considering the amount of attention the media have given the subject, I rather doubt that there could be very many people out there who haven’t heard of NDE’s. The amount of attention given to NDE’s is dwarfed by the amount of attention given to D-Day and the Holocaust, therefore fewer people know about NDE’s than about the Holocaust/D-Day. To suggest otherwise betrays a myopic appreciation of relative importance of NDE’s. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/72 "2012-01-17T17:28:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The amount of attention given to NDE’s is dwarfed by the amount of attention given to D-Day and the Holocaust, therefore fewer people know about NDE’s than about the Holocaust/D-Day. To suggest otherwise betrays a myopic appreciation of relative importance of NDE’s. Add to that the fact that there has been no hesitancy in the past to provide cites to the “white light” variation of NDEs when asked for, so why this anger over asking for cites for the rarer type of “Hellish” NDEs? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/73 "2012-01-17T17:55:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Surely, with all this evidence around it should be simple to find some cites from a non-biased website with case histories for us us to examine? Evidence for what? That people report visits to hell in their NDEs? I just gave you one! What more do you want? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/74 "2012-01-17T17:56:29Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The amount of attention given to NDE’s is dwarfed by the amount of attention given to D-Day and the Holocaust, therefore fewer people know about NDE’s than about the Holocaust/D-Day. To suggest otherwise betrays a myopic appreciation of relative importance of NDE’s. What about among people who open their mouths in discussions of NDEs? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/75 "2012-01-17T17:58:33Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > What about among people who open their mouths in discussions of NDEs? What about them? A ridiculous comparison was made, and I called them on it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/76 "2012-01-17T17:59:46Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Evidence for what? That people report visits to hell in their NDEs? I just gave you one! What more do you want? That was a link to a book. Can you provide a cite to a case or two, or am I supposed to buy the book and get back to you in a week? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/77 "2012-01-17T19:11:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That was a link to a book. Can you provide a cite to a case or two, or am I supposed to buy the book and get back to you in a week? Well, it would be nice if you would make some effort to become informed about the subject before you make harsh judgments of others. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/78 "2012-01-17T19:14:25Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Well, it would be nice if you would make some effort to become informed about the subject before you make harsh judgments of others. Why don’t you save some time and make that your signature. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/79 "2012-01-17T19:17:27Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > There are stories of people who died and saw hell, if you care to look for them. Any luck finding a cite from a non-biased source for this claim yet? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591/80 "2012-01-17T19:22:16Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What about them? A ridiculous comparison was made, and I called them on it. No, an appropriate analogy was made illustrating how unnecessary demands do not deserve a response. Someone who wants to talk about World War II but demands cites for things like D-Day and the Holocaust has either not learned the most basic things about the subject, or is just trying to throw a monkey wrench into the debate by making what he knows to be unreasonable demands on other people’s time. Negative NDEs are not at all uncommon. If Czarcasm really didn’t know that, then he’s not well enough informed about the subject to make it worth my while to discuss it with him; and if he did know, then he’s just trying to waste my time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/near-death-experiences/609591.md?page=5)