# Nearly a third of Texans think "The Flintstones" was a documentary **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 20, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814 "2010-02-20T22:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/61 "2010-02-23T11:49:52Z")
heh, even further: Evolution is not a theory. Evolution is a fact. Darwin’s theory of evolution is just a theory. Believe whatever you want about how evolution works. But you can’t deny the observation of evolution any more than you can deny the observation of gravity. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/62 "2010-02-23T14:03:46Z")
The Texas Freedom Network has some [talking points](http://www.tfn.org/site/PageServer?pagename=SUFSactivisttoolkit) about Evolution & Science Education in Texas. Including: > [@](#): > > All parents want the best education for their kids. There is nothing fair about handicapping the future of our children with a 19th-century education in their 21st-century classrooms. > > Public schools should be making sure students are prepared to succeed in college and the jobs of the 21st century, not deciding which religious beliefs to teach in science classes. > > We can do best for our kids and honor the faith of all Texans by teaching sound science in science classrooms and leaving personal religious views about creation to our families and churches. > > Cynical politicians should stop promoting a phony conflict between science and faith. This is just an attempt to divide people of faith for political gain. In truth, many people of faith see no conflict between accepting the science behind evolution and their faith in God. Right now, our Board of Education is “looking at” [social studies](http://www.tfn.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Social_Studies_Standards); the panel of “experts” includes [Peter Marshall](http://www.tfn.org/site/PageServer?pagename=PMarshall) & [David Barton](http://www.tfn.org/site/PageServer?pagename=DBarton). (Note to self: Re-up with the TFN.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/63 "2010-02-23T14:24:41Z")
I’m going to chime in from the other direction, as a mythologist. Half of the problem is that neither scientists nor fundamentalists seem to understand what myth is [using “myth” in its academic sense of “sacred narrative”] or how it works. The story of creation is neither incompatible with nor a substitute for evolution. Myths run on parallel tracks to science: they explain the same things in different ways for different reasons. Even belief is different: myths are true, but it’s supposed to be a metaphysical truth, not a literal one. When you start to treat the narratives in Genesis as if they were history, you’re already starting off on the wrong foot. I think if we had a little comparative religion in schools, we’d get some of the stupid out of the science classrooms, but of course that will never happen. And I’m insulted that you left out the California schools in the race to the stupid. Sure, we were once #1, but we’re sliding really, really fast. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/64 "2010-02-23T14:44:25Z")
And yet the curriculum in CA includes some of the best education about evolution in the nation. It’s taught at every level of elementary and middle school (except maybe one or two where the emphasis is on earth science). ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/65 "2010-02-23T14:48:19Z")
As an atheist, I have no problem with (Christian) creationism being taught as a myth, as long as other creationism theories are also taught as myths in the same class. I DON’T want creationism myths taught in science classes. I also think that a little comparative religion education in public schools would be a GOOD thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/66 "2010-02-23T18:34:16Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Myths run on parallel tracks to science: they explain the same things in different ways for different reasons. Even belief is different: myths are true, but it’s supposed to be a metaphysical truth, not a literal one. \ Respectfully, IMHO, this is the sort of po-mo “fashionably relativist” (Dawkins’ term) ideology that allows utter hogwash to assume the esteemed mantle of Truth, when in fact it possesses no actual truth. This type of thought is ultimately counterproductive, because it allows pretty much anyone to come forward and assert various kinds of “truths”, invariably contributing to the factually baseless perception of a “controversy” in areas such as science. Yeah, I know that an academic argument can be made to the effect that there are different kinds of “truths” (and indeed, I recognise and acknowledge, perhaps ironically, that this is a truism in itself), but I really think that calling a creation myth any kind of “truth” is a reeeeeal stretch. It might just have partially been this academic relativism that has allowed creationism/ID to have grown in influence and respect! \ Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/67 "2010-02-23T18:41:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’d start even more basically than that: > > Evolution is not a theory about the origin of the unverse. > Evolution is not a theory about the origin of life. > Evolution has nothing to say about the existence or non-existence of God. > > Evolution describes what happened _after_ life got started on earth. If God created the universe, and the earth and then zapped the waters to create the first life forms, it would not affect evolutionary theory in the slightest. ^ Win. This is HUGELY important. Darwin himself sketched this position. If scientists, science teachers, and science advocates were to begin the discussion this way, it would likely preempt a whole helluva lotta emotional opposition. I’m a (liberal) Christian. I’m also a fierce advocate of science. And it’s precisely the kind of facts that Dio describes here, that allows the co-existence of these two belief systems, within me, with no cognitive dissonance. > [@](#): > > Evolution is not a theory about the origin of the unverse. (Of course, it doesn’t help matters that Stephen Hawking goes around talking about “cosmic evolution”, but that’s just an unfortunately poorly chosen metaphor on his part. :smack: ) ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/68 "2010-02-23T18:57:10Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Pfft, that’s nothing. Now take a poll on whether the Earth revolves around the sun or vice versa, if the sun is bigger than the moon or vice versa, whether the Earth rotates or not, etc. Then you’ll become really sad. Or ask them if men and women have the same number of ribs? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/69 "2010-02-23T19:00:07Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > \ > > Respectfully, IMHO, this is the sort of po-mo “fashionably relativist” (Dawkins’ term) ideology that allows utter hogwash to assume the esteemed mantle of Truth, when in fact it possesses no actual truth. This type of thought is ultimately counterproductive, because it allows pretty much anyone to come forward and assert various kinds of “truths”, invariably contributing to the factually baseless perception of a “controversy” in areas such as science. > > Yeah, I know that an academic argument can be made to the effect that there are different kinds of “truths” (and indeed, I recognise and acknowledge, perhaps ironically, that this is a truism in itself), but I really think that calling a creation myth any kind of “truth” is a reeeeeal stretch. It might just have partially been this academic relativism that has allowed creationism/ID to have grown in influence and respect! > > \ > > Carry on. No, this is neither post-modernism nor an attempt to elevate mythic truth to the same plane as reality. Myths are held to be true by those who tell them. Those who tell them (barring some fundamentalists) are equally capable of distinguishing the improbable and surreal moments of myth from everyday reality. Ergo, true, but a different kind of true. If you like, you can say (with equal validity) that no myths are true, though that’s a bit insulting to the believers. They don’t fit well into the true / false dichotomy. The important thing is that no matter what you think about myth, it shouldn’t color what you think about science, any more than what you think about literature colors how you think about math. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/70 "2010-02-23T21:04:12Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I’m going to chime in from the other direction, as a mythologist. Half of the problem is that neither scientists nor fundamentalists seem to understand what myth is [using “myth” in its academic sense of “sacred narrative”] or how it works. The story of creation is neither incompatible with nor a substitute for evolution. Myths run on parallel tracks to science: they explain the same things in different ways for different reasons. Even belief is different: myths are true, but it’s supposed to be a metaphysical truth, not a literal one. When you start to treat the narratives in Genesis as if they were history, you’re already starting off on the wrong foot. I think if we had a little comparative religion in schools, we’d get some of the stupid out of the science classrooms, but of course that will never happen. And I’m insulted that you left out the California schools in the race to the stupid. Sure, we were once #1, but we’re sliding really, really fast. The problem with California is money, not morons in the Board of Education. I got myself on the textbook review committee for our district the year they were redoing the set of biology books used. They were selected by a committee of bio teachers. They didn’t give us much time to review them, so I looked at what the books said about evolution. They were right on the money, with one exception. The book meant for the continuation school oversimplified things a bit. The book for AP had a full page interview with Richard Dawkins, which I thought was awesome. My kids also had a nice section on comparative religions in their world history class, which was also well done. Purely factual, treated all religions with respect, and it probably would have given a fundie a fit. However I live in the Bay Area, and I think traditional Christians are a minority in my kids schools. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/71 "2010-02-23T21:14:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’d start even more basically than that: > Evolution is not a theory about the origin of the unverse. > Evolution is not a theory about the origin of life. > Evolution has nothing to say about the existence or non-existence of God. > > Evolution describes what happened _after_ life got started on earth. If God created the universe, and the earth and then zapped the waters to create the first life forms, it would not affect evolutionary theory in the slightest. Yes, but it is a theory on the origins of man (among other species) which gets the Fundies’ knickers all in a twist. “You can’t teach my children that we came from monkeys! God made man in his current form 6,000 years ago from a cloud of smoke using super powers!” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/72 "2010-02-23T21:15:57Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > …with no cognitive dissonance… Your opposition to cognitive dissonance is admirable. We of the Mother’s March Against Cognitive Dissonance also recognize, as you do, that CD is the number one threat to the Republic, and we must all…hey, stop that! Quit shoving! Man, that is so _uncool_!..I got a right to say…stop it! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/73 "2010-02-23T21:45:48Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > As an atheist, I have no problem with (Christian) creationism being taught as a myth, as long as other creationism theories are also taught as myths in the same class. I DON’T want creationism myths taught in science classes. I also think that a little comparative religion education in public schools would be a GOOD thing. I would be perfectly happy to have creationism taught in schools, as long as it’s in philosophy, history or religious studies classes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/74 "2010-02-23T22:04:23Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The problem with California is money, not morons in the Board of Education. I got myself on the textbook review committee for our district the year they were redoing the set of biology books used. They were selected by a committee of bio teachers. They didn’t give us much time to review them, so I looked at what the books said about evolution. They were right on the money, with one exception. The book meant for the continuation school oversimplified things a bit. The book for AP had a full page interview with Richard Dawkins, which I thought was awesome. Do you know why Texas gets so much pull with the text book publishers when CA has considerably more people than they do? > [@](#): > > My kids also had a nice section on comparative religions in their world history class, which was also well done. Purely factual, treated all religions with respect, and it probably would have given a fundie a fit. However I live in the Bay Area, and I think traditional Christians are a minority in my kids schools. IIRC, you live in the East Bay, right? I wouldn’t be surprised if Christians were in the minority! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/75 "2010-02-24T01:16:07Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Only Jesus could do that safely. Normal people needed a saddle and a muzzle, and got the raptors declawed first. Just take cute little Toothy to the Raptor Whisperer, and all will be OK. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/76 "2010-02-24T01:22:10Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > … I think if we had a little comparative religion in schools, we’d get some of the stupid out of the science classrooms, but of course that will never happen. Actually it has. In Catholic schools. We had a bit of comparative religion in my Catholic high school, and again later on at St John’s University. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/77 "2010-02-24T05:52:39Z")
> [@](#): > > **Boyo Jim** : …it seem to me as if schools are designed to destroy what traces of critical thinking and skepticism they find. Schools are about conformity, discipline and preparing cogs for the big machine. And they’re not even very good about that. What else can they be with the amount of money they are given to work with. I can’t speak for the administrators, but teachers are being asked to do the work of about four people. There is no time left for the kind of learning situation that **NinjaChick** describes – a journey of discovery along with Darwin, for example. But somehow, because some students insist and endure, schools do produce critical and creative thinkers like the best of the Dopers on this board. **NinjaChick** , your ideas are the very best kind of education. > [@](#): > > **Senor Beef** : The Texas board of education, for example, is basically one person short of going with the full God created the Earth in 6 days, then Jesus came down and rode some dinosaurs and then officially founded America as a Christian nation to be God’s favorite place on Earth curriculum. I believe it is still illegal to do that in any school within the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/78 "2010-02-24T06:08:02Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Just take cute little Toothy to the Raptor Whisperer, and all will be OK. I’m flattered, but puzzled. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/79 "2010-02-24T23:31:04Z")
Well not all news is bad on the science versus creationism front. The [Tellus Science Museum](http://www.weinmanmuseum.org/index.htm) opened last year smack dab in semi-rural, Bible-belty northwest Georgia. It’s a really nice facility, and a hot destination for school field trips. A kid will have a hard time seeing that place and not wondering if the Bible is really the straight dope. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814/80 "2010-02-25T19:05:36Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > (Of course, it doesn’t help matters that Stephen Hawking goes around talking about “cosmic evolution”, but that’s just an unfortunately poorly chosen metaphor on his part. :smack: ) The word “evolution” gets used a fair bit in astronomy. Galaxy evolution, evolution of the solar system, etc. We use it to mean “change over time”. Galaxy evolution is how galaxies change after they are formed. > [@](#): > > If scientists, science teachers, and science advocates were to begin the discussion this way, it would likely preempt a whole helluva lotta emotional opposition. Maybe, maybe not. I’m sure there are some kids who are using their religion’s opposition to evolution as an excuse to not have to put in the effort to study it. I’m sure there are some kids who are trying to get a discussion of creationism vs evolution started in class to waste class time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nearly-a-third-of-texans-think-the-flintstones-was-a-documentary/529814.md?page=5)