# Neat, it's a baby mammoth! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 16, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543 "2008-04-16T02:11:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/1 "2008-04-16T02:11:52Z")
This mammoth is preserved good enough that they can study internal organ structure. This is a remarkable find. [Baby mammoth article with picture.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24049244/) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/2 "2008-04-16T02:18:08Z")
Wow, that’s impressive, after such a huge amount of time. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/3 "2008-04-16T11:15:58Z")
It looks like a recently dead elephant, with the hair missing. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/4 "2008-04-16T12:19:31Z")
But can they clone it and have an elephant give birth to it? THAT would be cool. We could put them in Manitoba or something. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/5 "2008-04-16T12:40:12Z")
[QUOTE=Ruken] But can they clone it and have an elephant give birth to it? [/QUOTE] I doubt it - any more than we could clone a cow from beef jerky. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/6 "2008-04-16T12:49:12Z")
It’s not the first baby mammoth find – I have a picture of one found over 40 years ago in my Intro to Fossils text. But this one is MUCH better preserved – it almost looks as if it just died, whereas the older one looks as if it was badly stitched back together. By the way, did you know that there’s a baby Stegosauris skeleton at Dinosaur National Monument? It’s woefully incomplete (and the one on display is just a cast), but it’s the cutest dinosaur I ever saw. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/7 "2008-04-16T12:54:22Z")
I always look for mammoth references in the news, because they still can find fleshed out bodies. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/8 "2008-04-16T13:13:07Z")
[QUOTE=Ruken] We could put them in Manitoba or something. [/QUOTE] If we can’t deal with reintroducing wolves to Yellowstone, what the hell is a farmer going to do when [Willie](http://www.elephantsanctuary.org/bios/african.asp) knocks over his grain silo for a snack? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/9 "2008-04-16T13:24:13Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] I doubt it - any more than we could clone a cow from beef jerky. [/QUOTE] But she’s not dried out, she’s frozen. > [@](#): > > “If we take samples of Lyuba’s tissues by biopsy, without unfreezing her, there is a big chance we can obtain promising results in genetics and microbiology,” he said by telephone from St Petersburg. > > “I believe the genetic map (of the mammoth) will be decoded within a year or two. As for (Lyuba’s) practical use, we will have discovered methods of decoding the genetic map of any extinct prehistoric animals,” he said. > > “There were species that died out during the human era. And while I do not think someone would attempt to reproduce the mammoth, it would still make sense to bring back to life gigantic birds from Madagascar or New Zealand, or the Steller’s sea cow (an extinct mammal), and so on and so forth.” I don’t know if they’ve successfully cloned animals from frozen tissue but it seems more likely than from dried tissue. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/10 "2008-04-16T13:32:50Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] But she’s not dried out, she’s frozen. [/quote] After this amount of time, she’s probably frozen _and_ dried out. That we can ‘obtain promising results in genetics and microbiology’ is a far cry from being able to clone the animal. We could _obtain promising results in genetics and microbiology_ from a leather wallet. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/11 "2008-04-16T13:49:03Z")
Man, that is way cool! [QUOTE=Mangetout] I doubt it - any more than we could clone a cow from beef jerky. [/QUOTE] I dunno about that. I remember seeing a documentary once, where they cloned dinosaurs using frog DNA or something. I believe they kept them on an island somewhere, tho there may have been an incident of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/12 "2008-04-16T13:59:30Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] We could _obtain promising results in genetics and microbiology_ from a leather wallet. [/QUOTE] Don’t you dare! I’ll only end up stranded on your tropical theme park island to be chased by herds of prehistoric brontohandbags or stalked by the terrifying velocipurses! ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/13 "2008-04-16T14:04:37Z")
The problem with freezing is that the ice crystals tear apart cellular structure. While we will be able to find and replicate DNA (and I say “we,” when I actually mean “those really smart, hard working, well financed guys over there”), I would be astonished if the tissues are in good enough condition to even think about cloning. Besides which, if we want to clone a mammoth, let’s at least get the elephant down first. And did you know that mammoths are more closely related to Asian elephants than Asian and African elephants are? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/14 "2008-04-16T14:05:57Z")
[QUOTE=phouka] And did you know that mammoths are more closely related to Asian elephants than Asian and African elephants are? [/QUOTE] Bwuh? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/15 "2008-04-16T14:08:53Z")
I demand that the noble mastodon be given equal time to these attention whoring mammoths. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/16 "2008-04-16T14:08:53Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] That we can ‘obtain promising results in genetics and microbiology’ is a far cry from being able to clone the animal. [/QUOTE] Right. But “I don’t think someone \*\*would \*\*attempt to reproduce the mammoth…” (emphasis mine) is also a far cry from “Due to dehydration, there’s too much damage to the cells’ nucleii for anyone to reproduce the mammoth using current state of the art cloning technology, which has successfully cloned animals using a closely related but different species of host mother…” (but I don’t know if it’s been done with previously frozen samples or not.) He goes on to suggest that one could and perhaps even should reproduce more recently extinct animals as if that’s somehow linked to this mammoth. Maybe it was just sloppy wording on his or the reporter’s part. Can we just agree on: there’s not enough information given in that article for us to know if it’s possible or not? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/17 "2008-04-16T14:21:33Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] After this amount of time, she’s probably frozen _and_ dried out. That we can ‘obtain promising results in genetics and microbiology’ is a far cry from being able to clone the animal. We could _obtain promising results in genetics and microbiology_ from a leather wallet. [/QUOTE] DNA is an extremely stable molecule. I freeze-dry my genetic samples all the time. It lets me grind the whole tissue mass into a fine powder and go from there. It never stops me from getting perfectly good DNA. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/18 "2008-04-16T14:30:14Z")
I think the default assumption with any ancient remains should be that we can’t clone it, not with the technology of today or the near future. There may very well be sufficient material to be able to map the genome of the animal (essentially a jigsaw puzzle - reconstructing it logically by finding overlapping sequences in many broken pieces, etc), but even if we have it fully mapped, that’s not enough - because we don’t have anything like the technology required to _rebuild_ it chemically and physically, in order to insert it into a living cell. Seriously, any time any fossil or remains turns up with anything resembling soft tissue, there’s a knee-jerk reaction from the media and general public: ‘so we can clone it, right? right?’ - the reported end quote sounds to me very much like a scientist brushing off just such an excited, hopelessly-optimistic question, without actually slapping it down or rolling his eyes and saying “yeah, whatever”. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/19 "2008-04-16T14:31:16Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] DNA is an extremely stable molecule. I freeze-dry my genetic samples all the time. It lets me grind the whole tissue mass into a fine powder and go from there. It never stops me from getting perfectly good DNA. [/QUOTE] But not something you could then use for cloning the animal, as I understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543/20 "2008-04-16T14:32:42Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Bwuh? [/QUOTE] Allow me to translate…_CITE!_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neat-its-a-baby-mammoth/445543.md?page=2)