# Nebbish saves your life in exchange for promise of future sex. Do yu pay up? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 21, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514 "2016-07-21T19:03:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/101 "2016-07-22T16:01:30Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > AFF’s long virginity was due to her personality, not her appearance. Her problem was hat she was very weird and off-putting; she had as much trouble getting platonic friends as lovers. But yes, while she’s not as hot as Bernadette or even Penny, she’s not bad looking. Yeah. However long AFF was a virgin, Mayim Bialik was not. Regarding the OP: promising sex is different from promising to pay medical bills, because, issues of duress aside, you cannot contract for sex. No one can force you to have sex based on goods or services delivered, but you can collect money promised for goods or services. You also cannot force someone to have sex based on a prior consent. If I say I will have sex with you tomorrow night, and for whatever reason, I change my mind, you cannot insist that I promised, and I owe you. You can get it in writing, and it makes no difference, because you cannot contract for sex. Personally, I think that any promise made to Sean in the OP’s scenario is voided by the fact of the duress, but even if there were no real duress-- say, I forgot my lunch, and Sean said he’d give me half his sandwich if I’d sleep with him, I don’t have to do it, because it’s impossible to owe someone sex. If I promised to give him $2 for half his sandwich, that I do in fact owe him. If Sean started to pester me about the sex I “owed” him, I think I just might go to HR to see if there’s anything they could do, and I’d spread word around about what a boor he was being. I also might look into getting a restraining order. There will probably be a few people (read: men) sympathetic to Sean, and I might face some harassment, but they’ll get reported to HR as well. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/102 "2016-07-22T16:19:54Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Personally, I think that any promise made to Sean in the OP’s scenario is voided by the fact of the duress, And in the modified scenarios from later in the thread? If you promised Sean $5000 to risk her life on your behalf, do you feel free to renege? If Sean had initially begun to beat feet out of the burning basement, and hypothetical Chris were the one who suggested the exchange – “Save me from burning to death and I’ll rock your world” – can she honorably (not legally, HONORABLY) renege? Bear in mind that I’m not asking whether Sean may force you or hypothetical Chris to open wallet or legs. It’s whether you feel free to break the agreement you benefited from and which Sean undertook risk and incurred harm in fulfilling. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/103 "2016-07-22T16:44:36Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > And in the modified scenarios from later in the thread? > > If you promised Sean $5000 to risk her life on your behalf, do you feel free to renege? > > If Sean had initially begun to beat feet out of the burning basement, and hypothetical Chris were the one who suggested the exchange – “Save me from burning to death and I’ll rock your world” – can she honorably (not legally, HONORABLY) renege? > > Bear in mind that I’m not asking whether Sean may force you or hypothetical Chris to open wallet or legs. It’s whether you feel free to break the agreement you benefited from and which Sean undertook risk and incurred harm in fulfilling. OK. Let me see if I can make this very clear. Putting promises of money aside for a moment, let’s just look at the promise of sex. Chris is free to renege on the promise of sex. Chris is a jerk-- but not for reneging. _Chris is a jerk for making the offer in the first place_. Chris has to know it’s going to be very difficult to go through with something like that, and even if s/he does, there’s a good chance s/he won’t be very happy doing it, and Sean’s world won’t exactly be rocked. Chris may be making the offer in all seriousness, but even if Chris says at the moment “It’ll just be a one time thing,” Chris has to know s/he is going to get Sean’s hopes up that it might turn into something more. As far as whether it’s honorable, it really depends on the whole scenario. Did Chris plead decency first, then offer other things, including money, and more money, and finally when nothing else was working, go to sex, or did Chris go straight to offering sex? It makes a big difference in how much of a jerk Chris is. But regardless of how it played, Chris has the right to withdraw consent. Money is different. If Chris offered money, then Chris is obligated to pay it, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/104 "2016-07-22T16:45:45Z")
Let’s post another hypothetical. Your daughter was in an earthquake at work and was saved by Sean. After she gets out of the hospital, she comes to you and tells you that Chris only offered to save her life in exchange for sexual favors. What actions do you take? 1. Grab a baseball bat and head over to Sean’s cubicle and go to town until the cops arrive. 2. There are no other options. So if that’s what you’d do if it were your daughter in this situation, and we should do to our neighbors as we should do to ourselves, I’m gonna take option 1 on Sean just as soon as I get out of the hospital. Except since I don’t beat women with baseball bats, I’m just gonna look her in the eye and explain how, if she were a man, we’d have a very manly violent interaction, and the reason she’s alone and unloved is because she’s an un-lovable loser who deserves to die alone. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/105 "2016-07-22T16:59:11Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > …Chris only offered to save her life in exchange for sexual favors… Yup, I don’t know to what extent it’s rationally defensible, but my gut reaction to the extraction of promises of sexual favors under _any_ degree of duress is just as strong as yours, it’s totally reprehensible under all circumstances, and the gender-reversal is insightful. However, when it’s promises of money, the problem becomes more “grey”. We could create a continuous set of hypotheticals that run progressively through varying degrees of distress/duress from: Demanding cash to rescue someone under imminent threat of sudden death . . . Making a lowball cash offer (better than any other current offer in the market) to buy a house from someone who has missed some mortgage payments and may be evicted And I think it will be hard to put a bright line on just what degree of distress/duress is ethically acceptable for us to enter into a financial arrangement that should later be honored if the distress is resolved. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/106 "2016-07-22T17:19:09Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Let’s post another hypothetical. > > Your daughter was in an earthquake at work and was saved by Sean. After she gets out of the hospital, she comes to you and tells you that Chris only offered to save her life in exchange for sexual favors. > > What actions do you take? > > 1. Grab a baseball bat and head over to Sean’s cubicle and go to town until the cops arrive. > > 2. There are no other options. > > So if that’s what you’d do if it were your daughter in this situation, and we should do to our neighbors as we should do to ourselves, I’m gonna take option 1 on Sean just as soon as I get out of the hospital. Except since I don’t beat women with baseball bats, I’m just gonna look her in the eye and explain how, if she were a man, we’d have a very manly violent interaction, and the reason she’s alone and unloved is because she’s an un-lovable loser who deserves to die alone. I assume you meant to type Sean throughout. My bio daughter is only a baby, bit my stepdaughter is adult. So I’ll imagine her in the situation. If her rescuer is simply asking her to … pay…then I will support whatever decision she makes; I do not have the right to tell her what to do. If he’s trying to use physical force to coerce her, that is rape,and we call the police; the baseball bat only gets brought out in case of an imminent threat. If he’s trying to shame her into sex, iI let her handle with but assist as she needs and will allow. Because she’s an adult. If she’s promised him money, I advise her to pay it and help her if she needs it. I may pay it myself. My stepdaughter’s life is the fifth most valuable thing in the univese. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/107 "2016-07-22T17:26:18Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > If I had gone to the ER, agreed to the parts of the bill not covered by insurance , and then, after getting the bill, decided “No, I’m not paying thi even though I have the funds inmy checking accout; they had me over a barrell when I signed that paper because I would have been in intolerable agony without morphine,” I have brken my word. > > So again: Sean agrees to risk her own safety to save your life only if you agree to pay her $5000 afterwards. You have $10,000 in a savings account, so you can make hte payment; it’ll just hurt. Do you stiff her? Yes I do because I believe the agreement is tainted by coercion. Either that or we just have to accept that I’m kind of a Machiavellian dick in this situation. That’s the best reasoning I can offer you at this point, but I’d definitely renege. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/108 "2016-07-22T17:34:06Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Say Sean is broke. He’s not badly hurt yet (or thinks he’s not), but saving you will injure him. If he says, “Unless you promise to pay my deductible and copay, I’m getting out while I can.” You agree and he does in fact get hurt while saving your life. > > Do you feel free to renge because you were under duress? For many people there is a moral and ethical dimension to a sexual act that is different from agreeing to pay a deductible and copay is different. In the original scenario I would tell Sean “I would see him in hell first”, and die hoping that all those nasty legends about how people dying unjust deaths sometimes come back as fearsome and dangerous spirits (and if they true Sean is going to be my first victim). ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/109 "2016-07-22T17:44:18Z")
> [@GunnarFranz](#): > > It amazes me how little people value their word. There are some situations where other forms of ethical and moral responsibility rank higher than a promise (especially a promise that should never have been asked). What if Sean’s condition were that Chris perform a murder for him later? Would you consider Chris honor bound to take someone else’s life. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/110 "2016-07-22T17:52:15Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Yes I do because I believe the agreement is tainted by coercion. Either that or we just have to accept that I’m kind of a Machiavellian dick in this situation. That’s the best reasoning I can offer you at this point, but I’d definitely renege. Since you bring up Nicolo… :: slips on Evil!Skald helmet :: :: backhands HMS Irruncible :: Pay Sean the five grand you, fool! Because if you don’t, the next time you running from the Justice League and need a quick shuttle ride, none of your troops will help! Which probably does not happen to you a lot, I admit. But my point still stands. On behalf of the Villain Community I take affront at the suggestion that Machiavelli would approve of such mealy-mouthed and frankly Smurfish behavior. The wise villain does not renege on his deals, because word gets around to his minions and you neverknow when an angry Storm is gonna show up all shirty because you murdered Kitty Pryde. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/111 "2016-07-22T17:54:47Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > For many people there is a moral and ethical dimension to a sexual act that is different from agreeing to pay a deductible and copay is different. In the original scenario I would tell Sean “I would see him in hell first”, and die hoping that all those nasty legends about how people dying unjust deaths sometimes come back as fearsome and dangerous spirits (and if they true Sean is going to be my first victim). :: removes E!S helmet :: I’ve already said that I’m okay with breaking the promise to fuck Sean. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/112 "2016-07-22T18:00:28Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Since you bring up Nicolo… > > :: slips on Evil!Skald helmet :: > > :: backhands HMS Irruncible :: > > Pay Sean the five grand you, fool! Because if you don’t, the next time you running from the Justice League and need a quick shuttle ride, none of your troops will help! > > Which probably does not happen to you a lot, I admit. But my point still stands. On behalf of the Villain Community I take affront at the suggestion that Machiavelli would approve of such mealy-mouthed and frankly Smurfish behavior. The wise villain does not renege on his deals, because word gets around to his minions and you neverknow when an angry Storm is gonna show up all shirty because you murdered Kitty Pryde. If we’re going Machiavellian, why not refuse to honor the promise made under duress, kill Sean, then kill Sean’s entire extended family and Sean’s pet tortoise, making it clear that this is the penalty for either failing to assist people in distress, or for dishonorably demanding _quid pro quo_ under duress for such assistance, or for wearing white after Labor Day. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/113 "2016-07-22T18:00:37Z")
On second thought… Sean deserves to die, and who’s going to know it wasn’t an accident? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/114 "2016-07-22T18:08:06Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > On second thought… Sean deserves to die, and who’s going to know it wasn’t an accident? :: slips Evil!Skald helmet back on :: I hope you don’t think this will help you get a job at Rhymer Enterprises worm. t is not enough to be grasping and treacherous. You must be grasping and treacherous AT THE APPROPRIATE MOMENT. You plan only makes your life harder. Come back when you have a viable plan to murder Seeley Booth without harming his wife & kids. ---
**Author:** ![GunnarFranz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/da6949/32.png) [@GunnarFranz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GunnarFranz)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/115 "2016-07-22T18:21:02Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > There are some situations where other forms of ethical and moral responsibility rank higher than a promise (especially a promise that should never have been asked). What if Sean’s condition were that Chris perform a murder for him later? Would you consider Chris honor bound to take someone else’s life. Personally I wouldn’t make such a promise but under the hypothetical, yes. It does besmirch one’s honor to break a promise perhaps though not more than making one so dishonorable in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/116 "2016-07-22T19:38:47Z")
> [@GunnarFranz](#): > > It amazes me how little people value their word. I value and keep my word with remarkable integrity. I just will not be bound by some stinkard’s extortion. If you point a gun at me and threaten to shoot me, I am not bound in any way by whatever promises I might utter to try to save my life. My word is valid when it is given. What you take from me by force is not yours, and never was. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/117 "2016-07-22T19:46:54Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I value and keep my word with remarkable integrity. > > I just will not be bound by some stinkard’s extortion. If you point a gun at me and threaten to shoot me, I am not bound in any way by whatever promises I might utter to try to save my life. > > My word is valid when it is given. What you take from me by force is not yours, and never was. But Sean is not taking anything by force. He’s not holding you at gunpoint. He’s offering to put himself at risk but wants a reward for taking that risk _which he doesn’t have to do_. And I reported your post for language. We aren’t in the Pit, and stinkard isn’t acceptable in mixed company. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/118 "2016-07-22T19:47:59Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I value and keep my word with remarkable integrity. > > I just will not be bound by some stinkard’s extortion. If you point a gun at me and threaten to shoot me, I am not bound in any way by whatever promises I might utter to try to save my life. > > My word is valid when it is given. What you take from me by force is not yours, and never was. Sean is probably a stinktard, but she’s not the one pointing the gun. Poseidon, father of Pegasus and lord of earthquakes, is. Sean can could only remove you from the line of firing by staying in it herself. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/119 "2016-07-22T20:19:16Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > …We aren’t in the Pit, and stinkard isn’t acceptable in mixed company… When you say “mixed company”, do you mean a mixture of stinkards and non-stinkards? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514/120 "2016-07-22T20:22:08Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > When you say “mixed company”, do you mean a mixture of stinkards and non-stinkards? And if I might be so scandalous, a few Stinkbutts as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nebbish-saves-your-life-in-exchange-for-promise-of-future-sex-do-yu-pay-up/760514.md?page=7)