# Necessary and Unnecessary Remakes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 30, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357 "2017-03-30T16:39:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/41 "2017-03-30T22:05:34Z")
In 2004, there was a TV movie version of _Die Nibelungen_, (which aired in the US under the title _Dark Kingdom: The Dragon King._ Obviously not as good as Fritz Lang’s masterpiece, but they tried. And, for a 2004 TV movie, the CGI version of Fafnir wasn’t bad. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/42 "2017-03-30T22:17:42Z")
Completely unnecessary remake: Poltergeist 2015 (or thereabouts) ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/43 "2017-03-30T22:26:59Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Seems like “necessary” just means “good.” If it was good, it may not be necessary, but if it was bad, it was definitely unnecessary. Pretty much. Ideas don’t matter. Execution does. If the remake of _Total Recall_ didn’t suck, it would be great. We’d have _two_ awesome unreliable-narrator-space-adventure-action flicks! It’s risky to remake a good movie, since your work will be compared against the original. But it’s risky to remake a bad movie, since maybe nobody cares. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/44 "2017-03-30T22:55:57Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I haven’t seen them, but they don’t seem like a good idea: > > **Ben Hur** – did anyone see this? Which one? 🙂 1907 version: > **[Ben Hur (1907 film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Hur_(1907_film))** > > Ben Hur is a 1907 American silent drama film set in ancient Rome, the first screen adaptation of Lew Wallace's popular 1880 novel Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ. Co-directed by Sidney Olcott and Frank Oakes Rose, this "photoplay" was produced by the Kalem Company of New York City, and its scenes, including the climactic chariot race, were filmed in the city's borough of Brooklyn.\[a\] > While this film is significant for being the first motion-picture adaptation of Wallace's novel, its production als... At ten minutes, it’s a little too short. It is important, though, for the copyright lawsuit it caused. (See the wikipedia page for details.) 1925 version, starring Ramon Navarro. > **[Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ (1925 film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben-Hur:_A_Tale_of_the_Christ_(1925_film))** > > Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ is a 1925 American silent epic adventure-drama film directed by Fred Niblo and written by June Mathis based on the 1880 novel Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ by General Lew Wallace. Starring Ramon Novarro as the title character, the film is the first feature-length adaptation of the novel and second overall, following the 1907 short. > In 1997, Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ was selected for preservation in the United States National Film Registry by the Library of Con... Some people like this version better than the Charlton Heston version. It’s good, but I like the Heston version better. 1959 version, starring Charlton Heston. > **[Ben-Hur (1959 film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben-Hur_(1959_film))** > > Ben-Hur is a 1959 American religious epic film directed by William Wyler, produced by Sam Zimbalist, and starring Charlton Heston as the title character. A remake of the 1925 silent film with a similar title, it was adapted from Lew Wallace's 1880 novel Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ. The screenplay is credited to Karl Tunberg, but includes contributions from Maxwell Anderson, S. N. Behrman, Gore Vidal, and Christopher Fry. The cast also features Stephen Boyd, Jack Hawkins, Haya Harareet, Hugh ... The famous one, and still the best. 2003 animated version, with Charlton Heston doing the voice > **[Ben Hur (2003 film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Hur_(2003_film))** > > Ben Hur is a 2003 American-Canadian animated drama film based on the 1880 novel Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ, by Lew Wallace. It is the fourth film adaptation of the novel, the prior three of which were the 1907 silent short film, the 1925 silent film, and the Academy Award-winning 1959 film. > Charlton Heston's production company, Agamemnon Films (in association with GoodTimes Entertainment), produced this direct-to-video animated version of the story, with Heston himself reprising his role as t... Haven’t seen it, and the wiki page does not inspire confidence. 2010 Canadian TV miniseries. > **[Ben Hur (miniseries)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Hur_(miniseries))** > > Ben Hur is a TV miniseries that first aired in 2010. Based on Lew Wallace's 1880 novel, Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ, the series was produced by Alchemy Television Group in association with Drimtim Entertainment and Muse Entertainment in Montreal. It aired on Canada's CBC network on April 4, 2010, and aired later in 2010 on ABC in the United States. > Ben-Hur was directed by Steve Shill, and stars Kristin Kreuk, Ray Winstone, Art Malik, Hugh Bonneville and Joseph Morgan as Judah Ben-Hur. The fil... I have only seen a few minutes of it. Really low budget. At 184 minutes, it’s shorter than the 1959 version. I don’t think I missed much. 2016 version > **[Ben-Hur (2016 film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben-Hur_(2016_film))** > > Ben-Hur is a 2016 epic historical drama film directed by Timur Bekmambetov and written by Keith Clarke and John Ridley. It is the fifth film adaptation of the 1880 novel Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ by Lew Wallace following the 1907 silent short film, the 1925 silent film, the Academy Award-winning 1959 film and the 2003 animated film; it is the third version produced by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer. It has been termed a "re-adaptation", "reimagining", and "new interpretation" of the novel, and follow... The CGI was cool. The 3-D had its moments. Morgan Freeman is always good. But, on the whole, the 1959 version is still the champion. This thread seems to be comparing a lot of TV shows and theatrical films. In that vein, 1977 was a good year for TV movies. The BBC version of _Dracula_, starring Louis Jordan and Frank Finlay, was better than many theatrical films of the story. The NBC version of _The Four Feathers_, starring Beau Bridges and Jane Seymour, was better than most theatrical films of the story. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/45 "2017-03-30T22:57:19Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > . . . **The Maltese Falcon** – John Huston’s take on the _noir_ classic seems to perfect and obviously the way to film this that it blows the two previous efforts out of the water. . . . What were the two previous versions of The Maltese Falcon? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/46 "2017-03-30T22:57:54Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > … > This thread seems to be comparing a lot of TV shows and theatrical films. In that vein, **1977 was a good year for TV movies.** > > The BBC version of _Dracula_, starring Louis Jordan and Frank Finlay, was better than many theatrical films of the story. > > The NBC version of _The Four Feathers_, starring Beau Bridges and Jane Seymour, was better than most theatrical films of the story. The Hobbit (1977)!!! ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/47 "2017-03-30T23:05:44Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > What were the two previous versions of The Maltese Falcon? There was a 1931 version, starring Ricardo Cortez and Bebe Daniels. There was a 1936 version, titled _Satan Met a Lady_, starring Warren William and Bette Davis. This one changed a lot of names and plot points, and was played somewhat for comedy. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/48 "2017-03-31T00:33:15Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > There was a 1931 version, starring Ricardo Cortez and Bebe Daniels. > > There was a 1936 version, titled _Satan Met a Lady_, starring Warren William and Bette Davis. This one changed a lot of names and plot points, and was played somewhat for comedy. The Cortez version has its good points. Cortez is far sleazier than Bogart, and Bebe Daniels is about seven times sexier than poor miscast Mary Astor. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/49 "2017-03-31T00:48:36Z")
Thanks for the info, I was totally unaware. Youtube doesn’t have the 1931 film, any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/50 "2017-03-31T01:17:21Z")
I got mine as part of a three-movie set of all the _Falcons_: > **[Amazon.com: The Maltese Falcon (Three-Disc Special Edition) by Warner Home Video...](https://www.amazon.com/Maltese-Falcon-Three-Disc-Special-Warner/dp/B00UGPSCL8)** > > Amazon.com: The Maltese Falcon (Three-Disc Special Edition) by Warner Home Video : Movies & TV I notice Amazon also lists a two-movie set of _Satan Met A Lady_ and the 1931\* Falcon\*. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/51 "2017-03-31T01:52:52Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Unnecessary includes almost every movie version of a past popular TV series (whether the movie was a financial success or not.) Among those, I include _The Beverly Hillbillies_, _21 Jumpstreet_, and the current _CHiPS_. Don’t forget Will Smith’s awful Wild Wild West! There was also a remake of the Rockford Files in the works until someone wised up and decided to cancel it. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/52 "2017-03-31T02:31:09Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Worst has to be Psycho. Why bother if you’re basically reshooting the original? I haven’t given it much thought, but while the Gus van Sant may not be the worst remake ever, the gap between the two _Psycho_s may be the biggest gap between two versions of the same film, ever, because the original is so good. The Gus van Sant looks like somebody’s grad student film school project-- an “A” project, if it comes to that, but not a movies for theatrical release. Wait, I take that back on the biggest gap-- that may between the two _To Be or Not to Be_s. The secomd one just kinda makes fun of the first one, and the first one is my favorite movie ever, so I get pissed off thinking of the Mel Brooks one. Another “Why bother Hitchcock?” is the 70s era remake of _The Lady Vanishes_ with Cybill Shepherd, Elliot Gould, and Angela Lansbury. It should have been decent, but it was gawdawful. [QUOTE=Colibri] (sorry I screwed up the number) The 1933 version is my favorite movie of all time, and I hated the 1976 version. IMO, Jackson’s version was entertaining but suffered from Jackson’s penchant for Wretched Excess. Having Kong fight three Tyrannosaurs while falling down a cliff tangled in vines in my book was just too over the top. [/QUOTE] Just so. A lot of the much later remakes suffer from the. The 1933 KK isn’t my favorite movie of all-time, but it is dear to my heart (along with its B-side film, _The Most Dangerous Game_. > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > How about some Disney movies? > > _[Race to Witch Mountain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_Witch_Mountain)_ was in no way an improvement to the classic _[Escape to Witch Mountain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_to_Witch_Mountain_%281975_film%29)_. +1 for agreement. I love the original, and the original book. > [@](#): > > However > > _[That Darn Cat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That_Darn_Cat_%281997_film%29)_ was a worthy remake of _[That Darn Cat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That_Darn_Cat!)_!–it is funny and clever, and frankly the original drags quite a bit. > > (Don’t have strong enough memories on Freaky Friday vs. _Freaky Friday_ or _The Parent Trap_ vs. _The Parent Trap_, if anybody wants to wade in on those or others.) There are three _Freaky Fridays_, and the first one, with Jodie Foster, known, but not with star power as the kid, and Barbara Harris as the mother. This film got it right in following the mother who was a kid desperately trying to be an adult and learning first hand how much work it was, and having to go to he own school conference, and here what teachers thought of her. The _Parent Trap_ trap was a rare one where the first remake got it right, and the second one was superfluous. The original was called _Twice Blessed_, starred real twins who couldn’t act, and lacked the schtick of the not knowing about each other. Disney added that, plus the very talented Hayley Mills, and made a great film. No more remakes needed. The Fredric March sound [Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde\* was a big improvement over the silent one with John Barrymore, but aside from giving some other talented people a chance to essay the roles, it really has no justification, The Ingrid Bergman/Charles Boyer Gaslight needed to be made. The original was more just a filming of the stage show; The remake actually explored the possibilities for opening up the film onto the big screen. Plus, better actors. Everything Irene Dunne made should never have been remade. A hell of a lot of her films were, though, which is why she isn’t better remembered. She was hugely popular in her time though. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/53 "2017-03-31T12:38:00Z")
My definition of “necessary” and “unnecessary” isn’t the same as "good’ and “bad”. **Never say Never Again** is a good remake of **Thunderball** , but the original movie was and is good, so NSNA isn’t “necessary”. The first version of **The Maltese Falcon** was halfway decent, but didn’t get the setting or the mood right at all. And the second ( **Satan Met a Lady** ) was abysmal – a comedy that wasn’t even funny. Huston’s version got everything right. It was necessary. Of course it’s completely subjective, but what the hell. as for “is it just another adaptation of the same book or is it a remake?” is one of those usually pointless questions like asking about whether a tree falling in a forest makes a noise if there’s no one there. Generally when somebody makes another film based on the same source material they know about and are often influenced by that previous version. Don’t tell me that the folks who made the recent **Ben Hur** weren’t familiar with Wyler’s epic version, and probably the Francis X. Bushman silent version, too. You can definitely say a movie is a “remake” of a previous movie if that movie was the first version of the story, or if it made such significant changes from the source material that the remake re-used. There’s no doubt that the George Clooney **Solaris** was a remake of Tarkovski’s film, not Stanislas Lem’s novel. Or that the recent **total Recall** remake is based on the film, not Philip K. Dick’s short story. But, in contrast, the 2007 version of **Sleuth** is more than a remake of the 1972 version, because it’s got a completely new script by Harold Pinter, who reportedly didn’t even see the original. Pinter’s supposed to be an incomparably greater playwrite than Shaffer, but I’ll take Shaffer’s version anyday – it’s got more humor, more quotable lines, and it’s a conscious homage to and send-up of the conventions of the Classic Mystery (in much the way _Watchmen_ critically examines comic book superheroes). I agree completely about the Reuben Mamoulian/Fredric March \*\* Doctor Jeckyll and Mister Hyde\*\* – it’s a Necessary remake (and there had been a LOT of previous versions, not just Barrymore’s), while most of the versions following (like Spencer Tracy’s) were pretty much Unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/54 "2017-03-31T12:50:17Z")
> [@Rocketeer2](#): > > The Cortez version has its good points. Cortez is far sleazier than Bogart, and Bebe Daniels is about seven times sexier than poor miscast Mary Astor. I saw the Cortez version on TCM several years ago. It’s not too bad, really, although it’s kind of creaky in the way that many early sound films were. But it benefits from being pre-Code, so they could include the more sordid aspects of Hammett’s novel that were sanitized in the Bogart version. Spade’s affair with Archer’s wife, for example, is more explicit, and at one point Spade strip-searches Bebe Daniels. The fact that three versions of _The Maltese Falcon_ were made within only ten years is also a nice thing to point out, whenever anybody complains about Hollywood’s fondness for remakes as though it were something new. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/55 "2017-03-31T13:12:57Z")
> [@Rocketeer2](#): > > I got mine as part of a three-movie set of all the _Falcons_: > > [Amazon.com: The Maltese Falcon (Three-Disc Special Edition) by Warner Home Video : Movies & TV](https://www.amazon.com/Maltese-Falcon-Three-Disc-Special-Warner/dp/B00UGPSCL8/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1490922934&sr=8-9&keywords=maltese+falcon) > > I notice Amazon also lists a two-movie set of _Satan Met A Lady_ and the 1931\* Falcon\*. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/56 "2017-03-31T13:21:39Z")
Masterpiece films that no one needs to remake include **Metropolis** and **2001: A Space Odyssey** and while we’re on the subject of Kubrick, let’s add **Dr. Strangelove** to the list. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/57 "2017-03-31T14:29:08Z")
I think most would consider\* The Wizard of Oz \*(1939) a worthy remake. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/58 "2017-03-31T14:38:54Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I think most would consider\* The Wizard of Oz \*(1939) a worthy remake. I didn’t know there was an earlier one. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/59 "2017-03-31T14:43:42Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I didn’t know there was an earlier one. 1. There are a vast number of such prior versions from the early years of Hollywood, when studios were scrambling to turn out hundreds and hundreds of reels of content from gum wrappers and weather changes. Most are forgotten, some are lost. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357/60 "2017-03-31T15:08:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I didn’t know there was an earlier one. There was the silent Larry Semon version mentioned above (which features Oliver Hardy as the Tin Woodsman!) and there were several earlier silent films made by L. Frank Baum himself. I agree that the 1939 version is the definitive version, although you should observe that Baum never had the idea that Oz was “just a dream”. Dorothy went back several times in the course of his Oz books. every now and then someone tries to be more faithful to the Oz books, but it hasn’t been well-received. Even the 1985 **Return to Oz** , which tried to bridge the ideas of both Baum’s universe and the conception of the 1939 film didn’t do all that well at the box office. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necessary-and-unnecessary-remakes/783357.md?page=4)