# Necronomicon **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 3, 2001, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094 "2001-07-03T15:37:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2

**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2001, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/21 "2001-07-04T15:33:19Z")

\<\< let’s not forget the great and mysterious Necrotelicomnicon, AKA the Liber Paginarum Fulvarum. Kept between iron plates at Unseen University \>\> Lorelei, thanks. I’m now doing a d’oh! to whonk myself on the forehead for not including a mention of those dangerous volumes of magic that are chained to the shelves (to keep them from escaping.) And thanks to all for the kind words about the Staff Report. ---

**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2001, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/22 "2001-07-04T18:53:34Z")

And what about the Necrolemmingcon? Read it, and you want to jump off a cliff. Oh wait, that’s John Grisham. Hmmm… ---

**Author:** ![Dr.Pinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dr.Pinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Pinky)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/23 "2001-07-05T00:06:46Z")

Bravo, CDex, and to you quibblers, just try to do better in 500 words or less. 9fume0 I’m going to break with my bretheren here… when one receives their bachelors in english, you have to swear eternal damnation to Stephen King; when you get your masters, it’s King, Heinlein and Adams; by the time they dub you Doctor of English, no special ceremony is necessary to ward you away from HPL… it is equivalent to shooting yourself in the head & throwing your checkbook in the river… ---

**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/24 "2001-07-05T00:23:59Z")

Lovecraft was heavily influenced by another, earlier writer. His works are sometime regarded as part of the Mythos. **Edward, Lord Dunsany** was an Irish nobleman who founded modern fantasy fiction as we know it today. His writings predated Tolkien, Robert E. Howard, & Lovecraft by decades. His prose fiction reads like poetry, in a way I find very hard to explain. It _begs_ to be read aloud. In front of a _large_ audience. 🆒 His stuff is undergoing a minor revival. I expect you can get it at Amazon, or other on line bookstores. Chaosium Press came out with _The Complete Pegana_, as part of their Call Of Cthulu series. I also picked up a collection of Dunsany’s short stories–_The Hashish Man_. Very good stuff. In later years, he was a successful playwright. Look up his stuff. It’s worth the work. ---

**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/25 "2001-07-05T03:12:27Z")

Oh, it’s not that hard to find…Dover Publications has kept _Gods, Men, and Ghosts: The Best Supernatural Fiction of Lord Dunsany_ in print since 1972. As I’ve said before around this joint, “The Three Sailors’ Gambit” is the best spooky chess story ever written. And “The Hoard of the Gibbelins” is merely a delight. The Jorkens stories are also marvelous, but harder to come across…“In a Dim Room” has been anthologized frequently, and rightfully so. ---

**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/26 "2001-07-05T12:28:32Z")

Not to quibble, Bosda, but the Staff Report did mention that Lovecraft was heavily influenced by the earlier writings of Poe, Dunsany, and Bierce. ---

**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2001, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/27 "2001-07-05T12:38:20Z")

> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > \*\*Not to quibble, Bosda, but the Staff Report did mention that Lovecraft was heavily influenced by the earlier writings of Poe, Dunsany, and Bierce. \*\* Sorry. Forgot that. No. I’m lying. I wanted to sell as many people as possible on Dunsany. Mongo bad boy. ☹ ---

**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2001, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/28 "2001-07-06T01:16:15Z")

Got a fan letter about the Staff Report that I thought I’d share with y’all: \<\< Hello, Very much enjoyed your treatise on Lovecraft and the Necronomicon. Two things I’ll point out: One: you mention Ramsey Campbell as being a contemporary of HPL. I don’t think so – not unless Ramsey’s a lot older than he looks. And two: You wrap up the article by saying “Tell me Ghostbusters didn’t lift from this.” Well, I can’t speak for the movie, but I can assure you the spinoff cartoon show (The Real Ghostbusters) did, 'cause I was the one who did it. I wrote over a dozen TRG scripts, one of which was called “The Collect Call of Cthulhu” (it was spelled “Cathulhu” on the title card, possibly in an inane attempt to avoid copyright hassles. Or maybe the guys at DIC Studios just assumed they were correcting a misspelling.) At any rate, in that episode the Boys track the stolen Necronomicon, which leads them to a cult intent on raising Big Green from his slumber on the ocean’s floor. Trouble, as they say, ensues. If you’d like to read my original script, it can be found on my website at: [http://www.mindspring.com/~michaelreaves/callpreface.htm](http://www.mindspring.com/~michaelreaves/callpreface.htm) Thanks to you and all your colleagues for the consistently fine work you all do on TSD. As a full-time writer, I find your website invaluable for research. Plus, it always makes me smile – and for a guy in my business, that’s worth a lot too. Michael Reaves \>\> ---

**Author:** ![DaveW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DaveW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveW)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2001, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/29 "2001-07-06T06:53:27Z")

Ukulele Ike wrote: > [@](#): > > . . .Him Who is not to be Named. . . Just to keep the True Believers on their toes: Hastur! Hastur! Hastur! Bwahahahaha! - Dave W. [http://members.aol.com/psorsite/](http://members.aol.com/psorsite/) “My dream is of a day where every SDMB poster will have a quote of mine in their sig.” - Arnold Winkelried ---

**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2001, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/30 "2001-07-06T12:16:25Z")

> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > Got a fan letter about the Staff Report that I thought I’d share with y’all: > > \At any rate, in that episode the Boys track the stolen > Necronomicon, which leads them to a cult intent on raising **Big Green** from > his slumber on the ocean’s floor. (bolding mine) **Cthulhu is Godzilla ?** :eek: BTW, very good work CK. And Bosda, HPL in his essay on Supernatural fiction acknowledged his debt to Dunsany. Also another author who influenced him was Arthur Machen. But I have another question, is it true that Lovecraft did the first English translation of Mein Kampf ? I encountered that tidbit of information in a French Lovecraft bio by Maurice Levy. ---

**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2001, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/31 "2001-07-06T13:36:34Z")

I’m confused again. DaveW mentioned the name “Hastur”. I haven’t read a lot of H.P. Lovecraft, only the book “Tales of H. P. Lovecraft, edited and selected by Joyce Carol Oates”, which includes the following stories: The Outsider, The Music of Erich Zann, The Rats in the Walls, The Shunned House, The Call of Cthulhu, The Colour Out of Space, The Dunwich Horror, At the Mountains of Madness, The Shadow Over Innsmouth, The Shadow Out of Time. I don’t remember seeing the name “Hastur” in there (and it probably would have attracted my attention at the time because I’m familiar with the SDMB poster named “Hastur”). On the other hand, I’ve seen that name in the short story “The Repairer of Reputations” by Robert Chambers (author of “The King In Yellow”). So is Hastur, whoever or whatever it is, also mentioned in Lovecraft? If I’m not mistaken, “The King In Yellow” was published before Lovecraft started writing his stories. ---

**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2001, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/32 "2001-07-06T14:54:11Z")

It’s been a long time since I read it, but I’m pretty sure Hastur the Unspeakable, Dweller in the Air and Aether makes an appearance in The Colour Out Of Space. [sub]but I could be wrong[/sub] ---

**Author:** ![Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2001, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/33 "2001-07-06T16:15:10Z")

Well, since **hastur** is probably not gonna coment on this, here’s a brief history of the term: 1. Hastur was first used by Ambrose Bierce, interestingly enough, in his short story _[Haita the Shepherd](http://www.yankeeclassic.com/miskatonic/englishl/bierce/haita.htm)_. Hastur as used by Bierce simply referred to a benign pastoral deity. 2. Robert W. Chambers’ famous collection _[The King in Yellow](http://www.sff.net/people/DoyleMacdonald/l_kiy.htm)_ borrowed concepts from both _Haita the Shepherd_ and another Bierce story, _[An Inhabitant of Carcosa](http://dontyson.tripod.com/carcosa.html)_, but changed the meaning of many of the names he borrowed. In _The King in Yellow_, Hastur is used as a place-name (and once as the name of a servant, for reasons that are not very clear), not as the name of a supernatural entity. It’s worth noting that Lovecraft was inspired almost directly by the internal frame of this book (in which several of the stories revolve around or at lest mention a blasphemous play, also titled “The King in Yellow”) in his creation of the Necronomicon. 3. August Derleth borrowed from one or both of these sources in his early Lovecraft-imitative work (no links, both because his work is mostly still under copyright, and because Derleth was a serious wanker anyway). At various times, he referred to Hastur as Cthulhu’s brother, or opposite, etc. 4. One of HPL’s later stories, The Whisperer in Darkness (again, still under copyright)does mention Hastur. There’s a rather famous quote that Loveraft intended as an homage to various people whom he’d already given permission to use his concepts for stories of their own, which deliberately connects them with his own work: > [@](#): > > \*\* > I found myself faced by names and terms that I had heard elsewhere in the most hideous of connections - Yuggoth, Great Cthulhu, Tsathoggua, YogSothoth, R’lyeh, Nyarlathotep, Azathoth, Hastur, Yian, Leng, the Lake of Hali, Bethmoora, the Yellow Sign, L’mur-Kathulos, Bran, and the Magnum Innominandum - and was drawn back through nameless aeons and inconceivable dimensions to worlds of elder, outer entity at which the crazed author of the Necronomicon had only guessed in the vaguest way. > > \*\* As far as I’m aware, this is the only time Lovecraft used the word “Hastur” in his own work, and he was clearly using it simply as a reference to Derleth. 1. I should note that a fair number of works attributed to “H. P. Lovecraft and August Derleth” do make reference to Hastur. However, despite the authorial attribution, these works were written entirely by Derleth, after Lovecraft’s death. In most cases, they do include some snippet of Lovecraft material in the text, though a couple of them actually contain nothing but an epigrammatic quote taken from HPL’s previously published work. In other words (!!SUMMARY HERE!!) Hastur, as the term is commonly understood, was acknowledged by HPL, but was actually a creation of Derleth, borrowing heavily from earlier works. ---

**Author:** ![PStamler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@PStamler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PStamler)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2001, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/34 "2001-07-06T16:35:37Z")

In your otherwise excellent account, you said: “His father had a breakdown in 1893; it is now clear that he had syphilis, but at the time, diagnosis and treatment of the disease were unknown.” Uh-uh. The diagnosis of syphilis was quite clear cut by 1893; it’s just that, for respectable middle-class white folks, the family doctor would never write such a scandalous word into the official records. As for treatment, there were treatments available, and had been for centuries. The only problem was that they almost all involved various compounds of mercury, which is exceptionally toxic (see the Mad Hatter in Alice), and were often adjudged to be no improvement over having the disease. ---

**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2001, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/35 "2001-07-06T17:35:43Z")

While we’re on the subject, I have to make a shameless plug for the best gaming/hobby store in the world: Hastur Hobbies: The Shop that is not to be Named Owned and operated in Salt Lake City by the often-imitated but never duplicated Cthulhu Bob. ---

**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2001, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/36 "2001-07-07T18:25:31Z")

I read a book that actually claimed a guy brought the book into his house and his 5 year old daughter got real quiet, then went upstairs. He went up and saw that she had slit her throat with some knife. It was blamed (by the author) on the book. This was a fundie author, mind you. ---

**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2001, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/37 "2001-07-08T01:39:31Z")

> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Some Guy \* > \*\*Fenris: > > You may, or may not have already heard of the DeCamp Necronomicon - it is, in retrospect, the most obvious hoax you could ever come up with. It consists of a bound hardcover volume containing untranslated arabic script. In point of fact, it consists of _the same eight pages_ of arabic script, reproduced multiple times\*\* I _hadn’t_ heard about it before. I found a copy being offered for sale at about $40.00 after I read **Dex’s** article. Um…8 pages (plus the introduction) isn’t even close to being worth it. Thanks for the warning, it’s much appreciated! Fenris ---

**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2001, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/38 "2001-07-08T03:13:00Z")

Well, that should make the Reader’s Digest Condensed Version a lot simpler, then. So, does anyone know of a translation of those eight pages? Is it even real Arabic script, or just random squiggles which look Arabic? Just pages copied out of the Koran, perhaps? ---

**Author:** ![Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2001, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/39 "2001-07-08T03:56:38Z")

Unfortunately, every single description of it that I’ve ever seen has been second- or third-hand; they agree on the general description, but I’ve never seen anything with regards to an actual translation. In all likelihood, it’s probably some mundane manuscript with neato-looking script; barring that, it may well just be an Arabic calligraphy exercise 🙂 ---

**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2001, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094/40 "2001-07-09T08:00:11Z")

FWIW - [online article by Dave Langford](http://www.ansible.demon.co.uk/writing/ft95.html), one of the people involved in the George Hay “Necronomicon”, about the various spoof versions of the book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/necronomicon/71094.md?page=3)