# Need a little help, FAST. what should I tell this woman? \[updated title: ill husband has passed\] **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 29, 2020, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781 "2020-04-29T01:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/21 "2020-04-29T15:12:38Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > If he’s shut in, who’s buying the booze? Is her concern more because of possible Covid, or the fact that he’s drinking himself to death? > > StG It reminds me of “My 600 lb Life” where people are too fat to move, yet huge plates of food always materialize on their laps. “Caretakers” enable the behavior. Why? Many say it’s peace-at-any-cost when these people complain, that it’s just easier to give in. But caretakers have agendas many times as well. Some feel guilt…like they were the parent who should not have let the child be abused. Some want that person to be dependent on them. Maybe it makes them feel needed or that they have control or that this person CAN’T leave. Maybe it’s tied to the disability check or social security or whatever the money comes from. Then there’s the cycle of try, fail, despair, really give up…maybe the body gives you a jolt of pain, a warning shot. Try, fail, despair, really give up… OP your friend needs to show a readiness to walk away and mean it. He may kill himself but she doesn’t have to stick around to watch or help. Professional help is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/22 "2020-04-29T15:17:05Z")
OP, would pointing your friend in the direction of Al-Anon be of use? From how this is described, he’s not going to stop drinking until he wants to. And he doesn’t sound like he wants to. Accordingly, let’s help the caregiver figure out her options. AIUI, Al-Anon can help those caring for an alcoholic loved one identify behaviors of their own that may be counterproductive in treating the alcoholism, as well as helping the caregiver with tips and resources local to them. Hearing about experiences from local people in a similar situation to her, might give her insight into things she can do, and other people she can seek out for assistance. It also might help her understand what the likely progression of events will be in her situation, and help her prepare emotionally and financially for that. How very sad for both of them. I wish them well. I hope it ends happily, and unfortunately I have experiences in my own family that suggest it won’t. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/23 "2020-04-29T15:23:30Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > You wouldn’t go even though your odds of surviving are good, even with intubation? I’m 62, have controlled hypertension, a history of cardiovascular disease treated successfully with a stent. When I had the angiogram that led to the stent, I was clear with the cardiologist that I would not consent to a thoracotomy for bypass if my situation could not be improved with one or more stents. He thought my decision was wrong, but agreed to treat me. I never thought I’d live this long! Statistically, [most patients put on a ventilator do not survive.](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/02/826105278/ventilators-are-no-panacea-for-critically-ill-covid-19-patients) There’s also the philosophical idea that a person’s decisions should be respected, even if someone else thinks the decision is wrong. I’ve bought a beer for a guy who was drinking himself to death. If instead of wanting a beer, he’d asked for help stopping drinking, I’d have helped him with that. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/24 "2020-04-29T15:37:56Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m 62, have controlled hypertension, a history of cardiovascular disease treated successfully with a stent. When I had the angiogram that led to the stent, I was clear with the cardiologist that I would not consent to a thoracotomy for bypass if my situation could not be improved with one or more stents. He thought my decision was wrong, but agreed to treat me. I never thought I’d live this long! > > Statistically, [most patients put on a ventilator do not survive.](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/02/826105278/ventilators-are-no-panacea-for-critically-ill-covid-19-patients) > > There’s also the philosophical idea that a person’s decisions should be respected, even if someone else thinks the decision is wrong. I’ve bought a beer for a guy who was drinking himself to death. If instead of wanting a beer, he’d asked for help stopping drinking, I’d have helped him with that. Understood. I respect your point of view on this. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/25 "2020-04-29T15:51:16Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m 62, have controlled hypertension, a history of cardiovascular disease treated successfully with a stent. When I had the angiogram that led to the stent, I was clear with the cardiologist that I would not consent to a thoracotomy for bypass if my situation could not be improved with one or more stents. He thought my decision was wrong, but agreed to treat me. I never thought I’d live this long! > > Statistically, [most patients put on a ventilator do not survive.](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/02/826105278/ventilators-are-no-panacea-for-critically-ill-covid-19-patients) > > There’s also the philosophical idea that a person’s decisions should be respected, even if someone else thinks the decision is wrong. I’ve bought a beer for a guy who was drinking himself to death. If instead of wanting a beer, he’d asked for help stopping drinking, I’d have helped him with that. Why did you put that link in your post? Are you saying that you believe that most patients that have surgery and are put on a ventilator don’t survive? Because, that’s clearly not true. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/26 "2020-04-29T16:04:25Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Why did you put that link in your post? > Are you saying that you believe that most patients that have surgery and are put on a ventilator don’t survive? Because, that’s clearly not true. I was responding to **Living Well Is Best Revenge** , who said > [@](#): > > You wouldn’t go even though your odds of surviving are good, even with intubation? My cite shows that most COVID19 patients put on a vent die. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/27 "2020-04-29T17:12:08Z")
For what it’s worth, he’s probably resistant to hospitalization because that would cut off his access to alcohol and there’s not going to be any getting around it. I saw stuff like this all the time when I was active in cancer support groups and the effect of serious illness on an already dysfunctional family dynamic is unpredictable and often heartbreaking. I think I would advise her to leave for a little while. I know it may not be logistically possible these days - but in other times I would recommend that she go to a hotel or stay with a friend. Her husband is an adult, as long as he has a phone he can take responsibility for himself if he wants. If he doesn’t, it’s on him. If she can’t physically leave, she needs to get as far away as she can mentally and emotionally. Walk away. Hole up in a part of the house as far away from him as she can and order a pizza and watch movies or chat with friends or do something else that she enjoys. Her constant concern isn’t going to make it more likely that he will seek help, and it may make it less likely. Sick people can frequently hijack the emotional lives of their friends and family, causing all sorts of guilt and angst. She needs to think about herself first. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/28 "2020-04-29T17:21:22Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I was responding to **Living Well Is Best Revenge** , who said > > My cite shows that most COVID19 patients put on a vent die. Yes, I was wrong about that. ---
**Author:** ![audiobottle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@audiobottle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audiobottle)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/29 "2020-04-29T22:10:43Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This makes no sense. She’s worried in part because he is displaying symptoms of the virus that is the cause of all this. How can you say that he is unlikely to be infectious? I read it as the person is dying from alcoholism and its attendant effects. Depending on how significant the liver damage is, the husband may be encelopathic and thus not capable of making medical decisions for himself. I would be surprised if any physician felt comfortable making that kind of call over the phone or by description by the wife. Calling 9-1-1 may be the best option if they want him to be evaluated by medical professionals. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/30 "2020-04-29T22:54:50Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m 62, have controlled hypertension, a history of cardiovascular disease treated successfully with a stent. When I had the angiogram that led to the stent, I was clear with the cardiologist that I would not consent to a thoracotomy for bypass if my situation could not be improved with one or more stents. He thought my decision was wrong, but agreed to treat me. I never thought I’d live this long! > > Statistically, [most patients put on a ventilator do not survive.](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/02/826105278/ventilators-are-no-panacea-for-critically-ill-covid-19-patients) > > There’s also the philosophical idea that a person’s decisions should be respected, even if someone else thinks the decision is wrong. I’ve bought a beer for a guy who was drinking himself to death. If instead of wanting a beer, he’d asked for help stopping drinking, I’d have helped him with that. I 100% respect and support your decision. And if you were dying of something other than COVID, dying at home would be feasible, as you wouldn’t be endangering your girlfriend, who I assume would be caring for you. You could also get assistance from hospice. But what are your plans for your girlfriend’s safety if you get COVID? I understand why you wouldn’t want to go to the hospital, but I hope you realize you can refuse to allow the hospital to intubate, place a feeding tube, etc… My brother-in-law is dying of COVID and dementia as I write this. He’s in a hospital with an IV (because death by dehydration can be awful) and is getting comfort measures only. He and my sister wrote out living wills years ago, and nobody is pushing her to intubate or anything else. Even more important to me, he’s not endangering my sister, who’d otherwise have been exposed to pretty serious viral loads, even with PPE. I’m wondering how you’re planning to address this issue if you do get COVID (and I hope you don’t). ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/31 "2020-04-29T23:13:22Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think some people might be missing something here: > > Inability to make decisions, lack of desire to do things, difficulty breathing, lack of appetite, general mental and motivational decline … these might be symptoms for a lot of things (depression, alcoholism, suicidalness), but they are also symptoms of Coronavirus, especially in elderly people. Difficulty breathing may be a symptom of COVID19, but not that other stuff. From my reading of the OP I was under the impression that “Has all kinds of things wrong” was related to alcoholism or basically not giving a shit about life anymore. Nowhere was COVID even mentioned, and I don’t think all those symptoms point to the virus, especially the elderly like you said. At least not in any lists I can find. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/32 "2020-04-29T23:17:12Z")
> [@TheCuse](#): > > Difficulty breathing may be a symptom of COVID19, but not that other stuff. > **[Seniors With COVID-19 Show Unusual Symptoms, Doctors Say - KFF Health News](https://kffhealthnews.org/news/seniors-with-covid-19-show-unusual-symptoms-doctors-say/)** > > Older bodies respond to infection in different ways. Seniors may sleep more or stop eating. They may be confused or dizzy. They might simply collapse. Seniors With COVID-19 Show Unusual Symptoms, Doctors Say > [@](#): > > Older adults with COVID-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus, have several “atypical” symptoms, complicating efforts to ensure they get timely and appropriate treatment, according to physicians. > > COVID-19 is typically signaled by three symptoms: a fever, an insistent cough and shortness of breath. But older adults — the age group most at risk of severe complications or death from this condition ― may have none of these characteristics. > > **Instead, seniors may seem “off” — not acting like themselves ― early on after being infected by the coronavirus. They may sleep more than usual or stop eating. They may seem unusually apathetic or confused, losing orientation to their surroundings. They may become dizzy and fall. Sometimes, seniors stop speaking or simply collapse.** ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2020, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/33 "2020-04-30T11:43:47Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > a friend of mine, she says her husband is ill. He is an alcoholic. He has stopped eating, stays upstairs in his room all day long except for an hour or two. Can hardly breathe. Has all kinds of things wrong. Has stopped doing anything. He can’t even walk out to get the mail. How long has this been going on? Since people are wondering if he might have the coronavirus, has he been like this since last year? Or has it just been the past six or eight weeks? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2020, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/34 "2020-04-30T12:44:21Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Even more important to me, he’s not endangering my sister, who’d otherwise have been exposed to pretty serious viral loads, even with PPE. I’m wondering how you’re planning to address this issue if you do get COVID (and I hope you don’t). Excellent question, I’ve been pondering it of late. Not to be morbid, but I have what I need to accelerate the end of life process. If I reach the point where, ideally, hospitalization would occur, that’s my endpoint. Hopefully that’s not necessary. Sorry your BIL is going through this. As far as doctors/hospitals respecting a patient’s wishes, I’ve seen too many situations where this didn’t happen. > [@TheCuse](#): > > Difficulty breathing may be a symptom of COVID19, but not that other stuff. Yeah, if he’s an alcoholic who is no longer eating, he is likely hypoproteinemic, which can cause fluid to accumulate in the chest and abdomen. More info is needed. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2020, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/35 "2020-04-30T13:06:02Z")
Well, it’s all over for my friend. She called an ambulance yesterday afternoon and he passed away peacefully in the hospital early this morning. Multiple organ failure, high acid and ammonia in the blood, sky high blood pressure. Nothing to do with the virus AFAIK. She says he drank himself to death just like his father did. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/36 "2020-04-30T14:16:41Z")
That’s awful ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2020, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/37 "2020-05-01T01:59:36Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Well, it’s all over for my friend. She called an ambulance yesterday afternoon and he passed away peacefully in the hospital early this morning. Multiple organ failure, high acid and ammonia in the blood, sky high blood pressure. Nothing to do with the virus AFAIK. She says he drank himself to death just like his father did. Sorry for the whole sad situation ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/38 "2020-05-01T02:07:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s awful Why\> Sounds like both this woman, and her late husband, are better off now. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2020, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/39 "2020-05-02T03:11:45Z")
I grieve for your friend. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2020, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781/40 "2020-05-02T03:45:14Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > Why\> > > Sounds like both this woman, and her late husband, are better off now. The fact that this man, and his father before him, drank themselves to death is awful. Truly tragic. I grieve for them both. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-fast-what-should-i-tell-this-woman-updated-title-ill-husband-has-passed/852781.md?page=1)