# Need a little help with nomenclature **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 9, 2020, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136 "2020-09-09T04:37:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/1 "2020-09-09T04:37:45Z")
So, I’ve got this idea for a scifi vignette that’s been running through my head for a couple of weeks now, and I’ve decided to try to exorcise it by putting pen to paper. Without getting too deep into the details, humanity has undergone or is undergoing? several simultaneous speciations. True speciation, the general anatomy among all humans remains the same but breeding produces at best, sterile “mules” or a non viable fetus or in some cases no fertilization at all. In my scenario, there is one particular type of human species that regardless of parentage will either look elfish (slender, strong, pointed ears) or like a troll (brutish, heavy, almost bestial). This is where I need help. We are iirc Homo Sapien Sapien. This species of human would be Homo Sapien … Gygax? Tolkien? Maybe Homo Sapien Fae? Or, since the main cause of the split is from living on different planets, perhaps it should be Homo Sapien [Name of Planet of Origin]? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/2 "2020-09-09T04:43:02Z")
If it is a different species then it is _by defintion_ not _Homo sapiens_ at all. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/3 "2020-09-09T04:53:12Z")
Work with me here darren, its a bit of scifi fluff, not a thesis. They’re all directly descended from Homo Sapien so ok fine Homo …? Its a group of people who can’t reproduce with Homo Sapiens or any of the other new species in the Homo genus, they either breed elf looks or troll looks regardless of parentage, help me come up with a good species nomenclature, please ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/4 "2020-09-09T05:00:50Z")
Homo Mythos ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/5 "2020-09-09T05:11:52Z")
To take an example from current sci-fantasy, the _Shadowrun_ role playing game posits a “metahuman crisis” in the early-mid 21st Century, in which latent magic in the universe re-activates and humans with latent metahuman genetics are born or spontaneously change into one of four legendary human subspecies. - Dwarfs: _Homo sapiens pumilionis_ (subspecies name is Latin for “dwarf”.) - Elves: _Homo sapiens nobilis_ (“noble” because, Elves are automatically more noble than the rabble) - Orks: _Homo sapiens robustus_ - Trolls: _Homo sapiens ingentis_ (“ingentis” is literally Latin for “huge”) Plus the normal run-of-the-mill humans, _Homo sapiens sapiens_. In this milieu, they’re all subspecies of Homo sap. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/6 "2020-09-09T05:22:48Z")
Nothing magical about these folks except their looks which result from the circumstances of their origins as a human species Mythos sounds like it might work. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/7 "2020-09-09T05:42:47Z")
Damn edit window! Ok so either MIE-tose with just the barest hint of the th sound on tose or Mythica sounds like it might be good. Thanks Guanolad. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/8 "2020-09-09T13:05:22Z")
> [@DorkVader](#): > > type of human species that regardless of parentage will either look elfish … I’m sorry for not just playing along, but what is this even supposed to mean? ---
**Author:** ![SwissMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@SwissMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwissMan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/9 "2020-09-09T14:04:52Z")
One thing that I might consider would be whether or not the concept of elves originates with one particular culture. I have made the assumption in the past that elves seemed like a generally Scandinavian thing, so perhaps _homo scandinavii_ would work. But I don’t claim to be any expert on nomenclature; regarding the subject, about the only thing I’m sure of is that Asian-American is preferred to chinaman. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/10 "2020-09-09T14:09:22Z")
> [@naita](#): > > > [@DorkVader](#): > > > > type of human species that regardless of parentage will either look elfish … > > I’m sorry for not just playing along, but what is this even supposed to mean? I think it means that, in his story universe, human-appearing parents could have elf-appearing children, or troll-appearing children; and etc. Their features are not dependent on standard genetics expectations. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/11 "2020-09-09T14:13:25Z")
Wouldn’t they, in one generation, consist entirely of elf-appearing humans who have elf-appearing children? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/12 "2020-09-09T14:16:05Z")
You’re trying to apply logic to a fantasy world. In this situation, no, they don’t. Try not to question the science of it, just roll with the set-up as given. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/13 "2020-09-09T14:23:03Z")
I’m not questioning the science, I’m questioning the description. I can’t roll with a set-up as given if I don’t understand the set-up. I’m genuinely curious, but won’t disrupt the naming game again with this question if DorkVader doesn’t feel like clarifying. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/14 "2020-09-10T02:37:02Z")
ok, so a little back story to the story. Humanity made it to the stars, figured out steps to achieve relativistic speeds in a reasonable fashion and eventually ftl using the Handwavium Principle of Quantum Super Symmetry as Applied to Subquantum Foam (or just handwaving for brevity) another application of this principle allowed, much cheaper, more plentiful, but not limitless energy. So we explored, we found and settled planets that were suitable for Terran life and terraformed a few planets that weren’t. Now, not all planets found were opened up to colonization and some were even kept secret and used as secret bases for genetic engineering labs. Lets face it, humanity is full of assholes. We genetically engineered slaves, for a lot of different purposes. Homo Mythica was, originally, two different varieties of these slaves. Eventually, civilization collapsed into interstellar war. Much was lost. The planet Mythos, as it came to be called, was already unknown to most as genetically engineering slaves became just one of several reasons for the descent into war. After this terrible cataclysm for Humanity, interstellar civilization labored through 3000 years of “dark ages”. Now, having rediscovered the means to achieve ftl, the planet Mythos has been rediscovered, some 500 years after the beginning of “the age of enlightenment”. Since it was a breeding lab for slaves almost all records from so many centuries ago are lost and what remains are treated as religious writings and myth. Much remains to be found again. It isn’t known why these people have two different morphologies within one species or why their genetics work as they do. These are a people who have a cultural memory of genetic manipulation and slavery that makes them adverse to that sort of study today, indeed, it is a cultural trait to not have dealings with humanity much beyond trade and a few ambassadors to some nearby planets at the point in time my little scribbling will take place. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/15 "2020-09-10T02:46:14Z")
Grah! Edit window. Yes I know this back story is full of gaps and what not. I’m truly just starting out on this little venture of writing a story and this is just meant to be something to help me keep track of some of the reasons characters and groups of people in my story act as they do, not really meant to be a finely detailed universe. I’m sure things will change greatly as I work things out. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/16 "2020-09-10T18:56:08Z")
The polite term might refer to the planet, and the crude (and insulting) term to the appearance. I don’t mean to discourage you, but I note that there was a series of books about an alien planet with very humanoid inhabitants - after an apocalypse, the species diverged into distinct subspecies, one gracile and tall (elvish), and one robust and short (dwarvish). They tended not to get along… ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/17 "2020-09-10T19:05:15Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > You’re trying to apply logic to a fantasy world. In this situation, no, they don’t. Try not to question the science of it, just roll with the set-up as given. “It’s not that kind of a story, kid.” ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/18 "2020-09-11T01:19:24Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > The polite term might refer to the planet, and the crude (and insulting) term to the appearance. > > I don’t mean to discourage you, but I note that there was a series of books about an alien planet with very humanoid inhabitants - after an apocalypse, the species diverged into distinct subspecies, one gracile and tall (elvish), and one robust and short (dwarvish). They tended not to get along… Ok, I feel like I should be able to just say, “oh yeah, that story.” I’m tired and stressed, which story was this? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/19 "2020-09-11T01:51:21Z")
This is the background for Julian May’s Saga of the Pliocene Exile. I shouldn’t have said “about an alien planet” - it’s better to say “about a species originally from an alien planet…” ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136/20 "2020-09-11T02:00:01Z")
Huh, looked her up and at first the title of her story “The Adversary” seemed vaguely familiar until I read a synopsis. Never heard of her until now. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-little-help-with-nomenclature/920136.md?page=2)