# Need a more PC term for "tar baby" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 9, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420 "2012-05-09T20:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/1 "2012-05-09T20:25:16Z")
What’s an easier way to say a situation is something one shouldn’t get involved with because you won’t easily get out again, that it will come back to hurt you? More than “quagmire,” the getting stuck part, but also the repercussions part? ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/2 "2012-05-09T20:28:33Z")
Herpes Not-So-Simplex? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/3 "2012-05-09T20:31:46Z")
I know I’ve heard the phrase “barbed wire waistcoat”, as in something you really regret getting into and have a hard time getting out of, but I cannot find any examples of it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/4 "2012-05-09T20:36:30Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > What’s an easier way to say a situation is something one shouldn’t get involved with because you won’t easily get out again, that it will come back to hurt you? More than “quagmire,” the getting stuck part, but also the repercussions part? Tar baby doesn’t imply negative repercussions either. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/5 "2012-05-09T20:39:00Z")
Sticky wicket, kind of? My mom would call situations that were hard to get out of “roach motels.” ---
**Author:** ![TimToyGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@TimToyGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimToyGeek)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/6 "2012-05-09T21:23:10Z")
I’ve always liked the term ‘monkey trap’ for that kind of situation. It’s especially fitting since all the monkey needs to do is just let go of the food, and it could escape the trap. Tim ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/7 "2012-05-09T21:29:59Z")
Minefield? You might make it through just fine several times or you might be blown to smithereens the first time you step in it, and the best way to not be is to avoid it altogether. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/8 "2012-05-09T21:33:53Z")
Tar Infant-American? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/9 "2012-05-09T21:39:04Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Tar baby doesn’t imply negative repercussions either. You mean, aside from being covered in tar? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/10 "2012-05-09T21:43:06Z")
Clusterfuck comes to mind. It’s less specific, though. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/11 "2012-05-09T21:43:24Z")
Does “tar baby” have racist origins, or just racist connotations? It makes me think of the Bre’er Rabbit story and it would be a shame to lose that image if it’s been mistakenly linked to racism, like how you can’t say ‘niggardly’ anymore. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/12 "2012-05-09T21:43:54Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Tar Infant-American? I think you mean “petroleum product infant American.” ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/13 "2012-05-09T21:47:47Z")
Land War in Asia? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/14 "2012-05-09T21:50:30Z")
Don’t go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/15 "2012-05-09T21:54:04Z")
I call it “alligators in the swamp” from the old saying “When you’re wrestling alligators, it’s hard to remember that your original objective was to drain the swamp.” But “minefield” also works. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/16 "2012-05-09T21:56:30Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Does “tar baby” have racist origins, or just racist connotations? No, not origins. Yes, connotations. My grandfather was known to refer to black children as tar babies (and as a result of him I grew up not knowing any better about calling Brazil nuts “nigger toes”). And there is always the question of how often a word not racist in origin needs to be used in racist ways before the taint it too strong. When I hear it used I give a big benefit of the doubt to the user (since a lot of people are honestly unaware of any other uses) and the context, but it is a phrase I’d generally avoid. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/17 "2012-05-09T22:23:14Z")
bad news, black hole, maelstrom of hopelessness ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/18 "2012-05-09T22:36:10Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > No, not origins. Yes, connotations. **My grandfather was known to refer to black children as tar babies** (and as a result of him I grew up not knowing any better about calling Brazil nuts “nigger toes”). And there is always the question of how often a word not racist in origin needs to be used in racist ways before the taint it too strong. > > When I hear it used I give a big benefit of the doubt to the user (since a lot of people are honestly unaware of any other uses) and the context, but it is a phrase I’d generally avoid. What, was pickaninny too fancified for him? My hillbilly cousin trotted that one out at the last funeral I saw him; pity it wasn’t his own. I like ‘fine kettle of fish’, myself. I mean, what ya gonna do w/ all those fish? Gotta do something, what a mess. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/19 "2012-05-09T22:40:48Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > No, not origins. Yes, connotations. My grandfather was known to refer to black children as tar babies (and as a result of him I grew up not knowing any better about calling Brazil nuts “nigger toes”). And there is always the question of how often a word not racist in origin needs to be used in racist ways before the taint it too strong. > > When I hear it used I give a big benefit of the doubt to the user (since a lot of people are honestly unaware of any other uses) and the context, but it is a phrase I’d generally avoid. When I visited my grandparents in Tennessee, tar baby was still used as a racial slur. This was in the late 70’s. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/20 "2012-05-10T02:29:49Z")
Hmmm… I like “minefield,” but the mines won’t come after you after you make it out of the minefield. A “black hole” you have no chance of getting out of. A one way trip. I’m reading about… I dare not say her name aloud. The former governor of Alaska. The idea is you don’t want to engage her because you will get stuck, and even if you can get loose, she then comes after you. So even a tar baby wouldn’t come after you. And you wouldn’t get stuck to a large, dangerous animal such as a shark or a, uh, grizzly bear, although you might not get away. Maybe that’s it. A grizzly bear would probably leave you alone as long as you left it alone, but if you engage the bear (or other large, dangerous animal)… well, no, you probably wouldn’t get away from it in the first place. But if you did, it would chase after you. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420.md?page=2)