# Need a more PC term for "tar baby" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 9, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420 "2012-05-09T20:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/21 "2012-05-10T02:51:49Z")
Quicksand? The harder you struggle, the harder it is to get out. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/22 "2012-05-10T02:57:27Z")
The problem with tar baby is: It’s just so onomatopoeic. It made perfect literal sence in that it’s something you can’t ever possibly touch without getting covered in it…but as an adult, I look at it and wonder if perhaps it doesn’t refer to an illegitimate child with a slave? (yes, you may hit me over the head with the d’uh! bat) ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/23 "2012-05-10T02:59:29Z")
You could trade ethnicities with which to be racist or non-PC by using [Chinese finger trap](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_finger_trap) if that toy conveys your idea. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/24 "2012-05-10T03:04:01Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Does “tar baby” have racist origins, or just racist connotations? It makes me think of the Bre’er Rabbit story and it would be a shame to lose that image if it’s been mistakenly linked to racism, like how you can’t say ‘niggardly’ anymore. We’ve actually discussed this pretty extensively in the past. From 2011: [Is the term “Tar Baby” an ethnic slur?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=618765) (with poll) From 2006: [“Tar Baby” - offensive slur?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=382011) From 2001: [I used the word ‘tar-baby’](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=77614) For anyone unfamiliar with the story, **Spoke** summarized it well in that last thread: [QUOTE=Spoke] In a nutshell, Brer Fox (hoping to catch Brer Rabbit) makes a little person out of tar, the “tar baby,” and set it in the middle of the road. Brer Rabbit comes along and offers the tar baby a friendly greeting, but the tar baby “He don’t say nothin’.” Brer Rabbit is offended at the tar baby’s rudeness. He again offers a greeting, but the tar baby “He don’t say nothin’.” Brer Rabbit gets increasingly agitated until he finally hauls off and hits the tar baby. Of course he only succeeds in getting himself stuck to the thing. He swings again and gets stuck even worse. The more he struggles and fights, the more entangled he becomes. Which is why the tar baby is such a nice metaphor for any situation in which you are slowly drawn into an ever-more-tangled mess. [/QUOTE] Of the suggestions people have made here, quicksand seems to me to best capture the quality of “the more you struggle, the stucker you get.” However, don’t people get trapped in quicksand because they _don’t_ see it? which is kind of the opposite of the tar baby situation. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/25 "2012-05-10T03:22:20Z")
Here’s a nice visual from Shakespeare: “Steeped in blood”. The whole quote is from MacBeth: “I am steeped in blood so that were I to wade no more, returning would be as tedious as to go o’er.” It has a real “might as well get it over with, because there’s no getting out of it,” feel. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/26 "2012-05-10T03:44:52Z")
Maybe a tar baby IN quicksand… ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/27 "2012-05-10T03:49:50Z")
The Br’er Rabbit stories are _anti_-racist stories, and the tar baby in the story is not an actual baby at all, of any race, but a device used by Br’er Rabbit (representing the powerless but wily black man) to trick Br’er Fox (the powerful and dangerous, but stupid, white man). Do we really have to give up all our shared metaphors just because they may have occasionally been misunderstood and misappropriated by racist morons? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/28 "2012-05-10T03:50:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Tar baby doesn’t imply negative repercussions either. It does if you know the [Br’er Rabbit](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_baby) story. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/29 "2012-05-10T03:52:03Z")
Tarbaby, Tarbaby, tell me true Who is really the jigaboo? Is it the white man, the white talking that jive Or the black man, the black, trying to stay alive? You can’t touch a tarbaby, everybody knows Smiling all the while wit de bone in de nose That’s the way the story goes That’s the way the story goes – [Michelle Shocked](http://www.michelleshocked.com/chords_jump_jim.htm) ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/30 "2012-05-10T04:10:22Z")
Gelatinous Cube? ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/31 "2012-05-10T05:55:26Z")
Tar _[pit](http://tadhg.com/images/photos/tar_pit_mastodons.jpg)_? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/32 "2012-05-10T05:56:56Z")
Does “can of worms” work? ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/33 "2012-05-10T10:56:57Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > …the tar baby in the story is not an actual baby at all, of any race, but a device used by Br’er Rabbit (representing the powerless but wily black man) to trick Br’er Fox (the powerful and dangerous, but stupid, white man)… I think you got that backward. It was Br’er Fox who made the tar-baby to trick Br’er Rabbit. And, to the OP, no, tar-baby isn’t an inherently racist term - unless reference to anytthing ebony-hued is racist. Yes, the tar-baby was black. Why? Because tar is black. Why make it out of tar? Because tar is notoriously sticky. Why make it in the form of a person? Because Br’er Rabbit was unlikely to be upset by the indifferent silence of a tar-shrub. It can be used in a racist way, “Buncha fucking tar-babies always causing trouble.” But it is properly used to describe a situation that is really easy to get into and really difficult (and messy) to get out of, “Wow, subprime mortgages sure turned out to be an economic tar-baby. Whodduh thunk it?” ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/34 "2012-05-10T11:05:42Z")
A funhouse, badly maintained, with no exit? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/35 "2012-05-10T11:13:27Z")
Sarah Palin’s Vagina (hey, it fits with what the OP is reading.) ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/36 "2012-05-10T12:35:38Z")
Hotel California? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/37 "2012-05-11T07:19:10Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > I think you got that backward. It was Br’er Fox who made the tar-baby to trick Br’er Rabbit. Yeah, maybe you are right, maybe Br’er Fox made it, it has been a long time, but the point remains the same, because, of course, Br’er Rabbit was _not_ ultimately defeated, rather he turned the con around so that it was Br’er Fox who lost. Br’er Rabbit (it is coming back to me now) got himself thrown in the briar patch, because it was was what he wanted, because he could survive there when Fox couldn’t, and because it was the ideal place to unstick himself from the tar-baby. It is still an anti-racist (or reverse racist) story, where Rabbit (powerless but smart black man) defeats Fox (powerful, predatory white man who is not nearly as smart as he thinks himself to be). It means what you said it means, and, as I said before, we should not be so ready to surrender our good common metaphors to racists, just because they may sometimes misuse them. ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/38 "2012-05-11T14:43:22Z")
Don’t know why you rule out “quagmire,” that is the best substitute. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/39 "2012-05-11T15:34:20Z")
> [@awldune](#): > > Don’t know why you rule out “quagmire,” that is the best substitute. Giggity giggity! Thanks to _Family Guy_, “Quagmire” now has a whole nother set of associations for many of us. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420/40 "2012-05-11T17:14:13Z")
I was thinking 1. Albatross 2. White Elephant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-more-pc-term-for-tar-baby/621420.md?page=3)