# Need a reason for why a south pacific island might not have a viable fishing food source **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 2, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741 "2015-09-02T20:28:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/41 "2015-09-04T14:05:14Z")
Would it be possible to have a shellfish population without a fish population? I need the islanders to have some protein source should I decide not to go with wild pigs but don’t want an abundant source ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/42 "2015-09-04T15:12:28Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Would it be possible to have a shellfish population without a fish population? I need the islanders to have some protein source should I decide not to go with wild pigs but don’t want an abundant source Yes. But that doesn’t mean the shellfish will be easy to catch. Sandy of rocky shores may host some barnacle like critters on rocks, and an occasional crab or similar creature in shallow water, but the more abundant critters will be in deep water around protective structures like coral reef or just plain rock. They could easily be at depths unattainable for most people even if they some snorkeling gear. If there was a healthy coral reef around this island there would be finned fish in the water already. On the other hand there may be a substantial number of land crabs available for food. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/43 "2015-09-04T16:25:33Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > They could easily be at depths unattainable for most people even if they some snorkeling gear. Could they be trapped instead, like lobsters (the ones that move, that is – clearly it’s difficult to lure barnacles into a trap)? ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/44 "2015-09-04T16:31:47Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Would it be possible to have a shellfish population without a fish population? I need the islanders to have some protein source should I decide not to go with wild pigs but don’t want an abundant source Turtles or birds would be an option. Both would probably be seasonal in nature, but you’d have nests to raid as well as adults. Of course, I don’t know my south Pacific wildlife well enough to know if any real species would fit the bill. Wild pigs don’t need to be abundant. Even if they’re domesticated, they might not be abundant. Pigs need food of their own and if the islanders don’t have an excess of grain (or coconuts or whatever) then pigs are an inefficient use of their limited food supply. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/45 "2015-09-04T16:39:07Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Could they be trapped instead, like lobsters (the ones that move, that is – clearly it’s difficult to lure barnacles into a trap)? I suppose so. Fish traps should work as well. But most of the life on reefs is in the corals and other fixed or slow moving invertebrates that wouldn’t enter a trap. You could probably pick up some reef shrimp that way, but you’re unlikely to be catching any oxymoronic jumbo shrimp. It keeps coming back to the same problem, sea shore life lives where there are nutrients and protection. When that’s available there will be food to catch. When it’s not available the potential food supply dwindles and becomes more difficult to catch. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/46 "2015-09-04T18:37:28Z")
There also needs to be sufficiently protected water to protect the fishing boats. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/47 "2015-09-04T18:45:08Z")
Note also the island could be fished out, like the first Survivor epi: It was set in the South China Sea on the remote Malaysian island of Tiga in the state of Sabah. Listed as being “overfished”. (and confirmed during the show). ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/48 "2015-09-04T21:40:06Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I think the rats were probably uninvited, like they are on most ships. And they may have tried to bring pigs, but they didn’t survive the voyage (or became emergency rations). The first Maori brought both chickens and pigs to New Zealand. Both species were allowed to become extinct in very short order. That may have had something to do with the difficulty in growing tropical Polynesian crops in temperate new Zealand, but the fact that pigs survive quite fine in NZ with no care whatsoever suggests that every last pig was actively slaughtered, rather than dying from neglect. The evidence suggests that this was because of the overabundance of large, delicious and completely naive birds, frogs and reptiles that covered New Zealand. People saw no need to waste time tending to chickens and pigs when they could literally kills thousands of frogs or dozens of Moa each morning. So the pigs and chickens were slaughtered once it became clear there was no reason to keep them alive. Within 500 years people in New Zealand were slaughtering and eating each other because of desperate shortage of protein. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/49 "2015-09-05T02:05:35Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > The first Maori brought both chickens and pigs to New Zealand. Both species were allowed to become extinct in very short order. That may have had something to do with the difficulty in growing tropical Polynesian crops in temperate new Zealand, but the fact that pigs survive quite fine in NZ with no care whatsoever suggests that every last pig was actively slaughtered, rather than dying from neglect. > > The evidence suggests that this was because of the overabundance of large, delicious and completely naive birds, frogs and reptiles that covered New Zealand. People saw no need to waste time tending to chickens and pigs when they could literally kills thousands of frogs or dozens of Moa each morning. So the pigs and chickens were slaughtered once it became clear there was no reason to keep them alive. > > Within 500 years people in New Zealand were slaughtering and eating each other because of desperate shortage of protein. This article sez they did not bring chickens or pigs. [http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/history/page-1](http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/history/page-1) The Polynesian dog and rat came with the early arrivals, but the domestic pigs and chickens of the islands did not, for reasons not fully understood. Same with this book > **[A New Zealand Book of Beasts](https://books.google.com/books?id=DwFXAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=first%2BMaori%2Bbrought%2Bboth%2Bchickens%2Band%2Bpigs%2Bto%2BNew%2BZealand&source=bl&ots=ig9PqfeAAL&sig=evzfTamBPvlJdrLC2TXtW8KjwFk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDMQ6AEwA2oVChMItK6QwuXexwIVAjOICh36_A2F#v=onepage&q=first%20Maori%20brought%20both%20chickens%20and%20pigs%20to%20New%20Zealand&f=false)** > > Touching on indigenous Maori relationships with the now-extinct, flightless moa; the attitudes of Pakeha, or European, settlers toward sheep; the iconography of whales and dolphins; the problems of pest-control; and the pleasures of pet-keeping, this... This book sez they might of, but there’s no evidence: > **[The Future Eaters](https://books.google.com/books?id=eIW5aktgo0IC&pg=PA243&lpg=PA243&dq=first%2BMaori%2Bbrought%2Bboth%2Bchickens%2Band%2Bpigs%2Bto%2BNew%2BZealand&source=bl&ots=QZ0XifQRQO&sig=FVvauwX4c66FxE2hIdugNEtQ36w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDgQ6AEwBGoVChMItK6QwuXexwIVAjOICh36_A2F#v=onepage&q=first%20Maori%20brought%20both%20chickens%20and%20pigs%20to%20New%20Zealand&f=false)** > > Humans first settled the islands of Australia, New Zealand, New Caledonia, and New Guinea some sixty millennia ago, and as they had elsewhere across the globe, immediately began altering the environment by hunting and trapping animals and gathering... Same with this book: > **[Island Environments in a Changing World](https://books.google.com/books?id=V9k3R2Y3-1IC&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=first%2BMaori%2Bbrought%2Bboth%2Bchickens%2Band%2Bpigs%2Bto%2BNew%2BZealand&source=bl&ots=APB8bSp9cR&sig=VwQKFiqjcOSBx269MRwyW5K7rXw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEUQ6AEwB2oVChMItK6QwuXexwIVAjOICh36_A2F#v=onepage&q=first%20Maori%20brought%20both%20chickens%20and%20pigs%20to%20New%20Zealand&f=false)** > > Islands represent unique opportunities to examine human interaction with the natural environment. They capture the human imagination as remote, vulnerable and exotic, yet there is comparatively little understanding of their basic geology, geography,... ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/50 "2015-09-05T03:07:44Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > How many kinds of rodents has he eaten? All, presumably… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/51 "2015-09-05T05:00:14Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > How many kinds of rodents has he eaten? A lot of beaver…😃 ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/52 "2015-09-05T12:38:50Z")
It is hard to see rodents as a viable protein source-there is so little meat on them, and preparing them would be a lot of work. It makes much more sense to gather shellfish-blue mussels are common around here-you can gather several pounds in a few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/53 "2015-09-05T16:55:08Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It is hard to see rodents as a viable protein source-there is so little meat on them, and preparing them would be a lot of work. It makes much more sense to gather shellfish-blue mussels are common around here-you can gather several pounds in a few minutes. Indeed you can. But then they take 7 years or so to grow back to full size. [http://www.maine.gov/dmr/rm/bluemussel.html](http://www.maine.gov/dmr/rm/bluemussel.html) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/54 "2015-09-05T17:05:28Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It is hard to see rodents as a viable protein source-there is so little meat on them, and preparing them would be a lot of work. It makes much more sense to gather shellfish-blue mussels are common around here-you can gather several pounds in a few minutes. It’s probably not much work if you leave the bones in. How hard can tiny mouse bones be, really? Crunchy, like raw celery, I’m guessing\*. Skin and gut and pop 'em in the pot…surely no more work than cleaning shrimp. Bigger rodents, like guinea pigs, are well enjoyed by many. I can buy them (cleaned and frozen) at my local Ethnic Market (but I don’t, because they’re $20 each!) \*We’ll have to wait for Mangetout’s answer to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/55 "2015-09-06T12:21:14Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Would it be possible to have a shellfish population without a fish population? I need the islanders to have some protein source should I decide not to go with wild pigs but don’t want an abundant source Goat’s cheese (and the occasional goat; you can’t kill them all and eat them if you need the milk & hair). ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/56 "2015-09-06T19:26:49Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Don’t forget rats. The Polynesian rat _Rattus exulans_ was used for food on many Polynesian islands. Also dogs. > > And people. The Maori in New Zealand didn’t have pigs or chickens. Their only sources for land mammal protein were dogs, rats, and people. They used all three. 😕 :eek: Doesn’t New Zealand have a few different varieties of flightless bird? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/57 "2015-09-06T19:39:10Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Robot Sea Monsters created by Evil Geniuses For A Better Tomorrow and controlled by the International Communist Conspiracy keep killing all the fish/fishermen. That might work. Are you playing Bermuda Triangle, or Servants of Cthulhu? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/58 "2015-09-06T21:03:05Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > 😕 :eek: Doesn’t New Zealand have a few different varieties of flightless bird? Sure, but I said “land mammal protein.” When the Maoris arrived, the islands were teeming with many species of moas and several other kinds of flightless birds. But most of these were rapidly overhunted to extinction. A few varieties of flightless birds survived, but aside from kiwis and weka rails, were mostly pretty rare or confined to remote mountains. The Maoris could also use marine mammals like seals and sea lions, dolphins, and the occasional beached whale. But the only native land mammals were a few species of bats. ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741/59 "2015-09-08T02:17:26Z")
> [@moojja](#): > > How is that different from eating rabbits? What’s eew about it? Um, I doubt a rabbit would eat _me_? As a rule, herbivores are more tasty than carnivores. But mostly I think it’s that rats have bad press agents. The whole “vermin” classification, hundreds of years of folks saying they spread disease, living in trash. Rats just seem disgusting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-a-reason-for-why-a-south-pacific-island-might-not-have-a-viable-fishing-food-source/729741.md?page=2)