# Need advice army, navy or airforce which to join? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 14, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277 "2003-11-14T18:36:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Omnipresent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@Omnipresent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omnipresent)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/21 "2003-11-16T02:10:07Z")
Just got back from a football game at West Point. Army lost, as usual. Going into the service is cool but, realize what you’re doing. You’re putting your life on the line so that others can realize the freedom that we’ve all become acustomed to. That is the deal you know. It’s not just, an experience, money for school, not being sure what you want to do. It’s all that and more. It really is a prideful thing. If you’re not willing to sacrifice yourself for others, don’t go in. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/22 "2003-11-16T05:41:35Z")
Good point, **Omni**. And one more to think about. The sole function of the military (USA, USMC, USAF, USN), once you boil it down, is to kill. Every person IN the military is either a trained killer, or is trained to help others do the killing. PLEASE, if you cannot get your brain around this and accept it, consider an alternative career. ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/23 "2003-11-16T06:25:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBill \* > \*\*The sole function of the military (USA, USMC, USAF, USN), once you boil it down, is to kill. \*\* A slight clarification. The purpose of the military is to kill people _and_ break things. And yes, I realize that when most people suggest joining the Air Force they are implicitly saying that you will be farther “removed” from the actual killing and breaking part. Unless you are a fighter guy, there are very few times when an Air Force guy will actually pull a trigger (AFSOC and CCT types excepted). But I’m glad that **Omnipresent** brought up the point of service. You don’t “serve” with Microsoft, Texaco or Wal-Mart. With service in the military, you are doing something that will benefit others MORE than it will benefit you. And while the benefits, pay, living conditions and (yes) travel opportunities can be discussed, in the end you are serving your country. As many on this board can attest to, giving something of yourself is a fulfilling experience. Giving something in the structured, strenuous environment of the military can be very fulfilling, but also very difficult. Talk to people, read some books and make sure you know what you want before signing anything. E-mail me if you have any questions (I can help more on Air Force stuff than other branches). ---
**Author:** ![Cornelius\_Tuggerson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Cornelius\_Tuggerson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cornelius_Tuggerson)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/24 "2003-11-16T15:11:22Z")
Serving others wasn’t really what I thought the military did. From the comfortable and comparatively safe outside it seemed like they just do the jobs that need to be done no matter what. The “Or Die Trying” level of determination that military personell seem to have is what really appeals to me. If it also makes some peoples lives better I am all for it. One other question I had was about the rumors I keep hearing about the amount of drugs involved in the military. Some people I know make it sound like the drug problem in the army is worse then it is in some federal jails. Anyone care to tell me how true that is? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/25 "2003-11-16T17:19:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalhoun \* > \*\* If you want to play it safe, i.e., not get shot at, join the Navy. > > Also, swimming isn’t really a qualification in the Navy. They prefer you stay in the boat. 😉 \*\* So what were the VC doing when I was in Nam for those 12 months, throwing tomatoes? Also, ask the folks on the USS Cole if they would agree with you. Swimming qualification was a requirement when I went in, but perhaps that’s changed. ---
**Author:** ![Omnipresent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@Omnipresent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omnipresent)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/26 "2003-11-16T20:19:31Z")
Well, it obviously is a qualification but, it’s just one of them. Also, there’s sea survival training, like how you can turn your pants into a floatation device. Again, I’d suggest keeping all your options open as far as what it is exactly your occupation would be (other than soldier/sailor, etc) and get a written contract that that’s what you’ll be trained in regardless of whether it’s the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines. Hey, if you happen to get yourself killed, you won’t have to worry about it. If, on the other hand, you find yourself out of the military, what are you gonna do now? Of course, you can always make a career out of the military but, that’s another story. You can’t possibly think now that you’d want to make it a career. You’d have to get a taste first. ---
**Author:** ![Quack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e99b99/32.png) [@Quack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quack)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/27 "2003-11-16T20:39:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by js\_africanus \* > \*\*Here’s the advice my dad, a veteran and an officer, gave me: Don’t join the military until you get drafted, and when you do, take the draft notice to the airforce recruiter. If you’re not going to heed the first part, at least heed the second. \*\* I’m fairly sure my dad would give the same advice, he was in the USAF for 6 years as an electrical engineer. He’s often told me that the Air Force has the best accomodations in the military and they treat the recruits the best. If I were to join, it would be my choice. Besides, both of my grandfathers were in the Navy and they often lament about how bad it was on the ships. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/28 "2003-11-16T20:55:02Z")
Most people associate the Navy with ships. There is also a large Naval Construction Force (somewhere around 10,000 strong) that rarely, if ever, goes on board ship. In 23 years, I never set foot on a boat. Army/Marines: easier to get promoted. Just as easy to get demoted. Good chance of ending up as a ground pounder without transferrable skills to civilian life. Somewhat easier to get a commission than the other services. Navy: competetive advancement exams. If you’re in a critical rating, promotion is relatively quick. More difficult to lose rank than in the Army/Corps. Most Navy ratings have a civilian counterpart. Schooling is good, but not guaranteed. OCS requires a degree, but there are “bootstrap” programs for enlisted to get a commission. Air Force: a lot of career E-5s out there. Advancement is slow. Living conditions, recreation facilities and food are generally the best of the services. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/29 "2003-11-16T21:12:28Z")
One other thing about Air Force OTS: If you go in through that route, in the officer hierarchy you will always be at the bottom – Academy grads are at the top, followed by ROTC types, with OTSers bringing up the rear. And if you aren’t rated, i.e. involved in flying in some fashion, that is also a strike against you in the Air Force. Given the choice of two guys to promote from captain to major (the usual make-or-break either-you’re-gonna-make-it-to-retirement-or-you’re-out point), the one who’s rated will almost _always_ get the promotion. All that being said, Air Force is probably the best service to go into. Although they’ve recently seriously tightened up the physical standards – the [new standards](http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/airforcejoin/a/afbmtfitness.htm) are noticeably tougher – and for enlisted recruits have added a week of field combat training similar to what the Marines and Army had (as has the Navy) – so things aren’t necessarily a lot easier. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/30 "2003-11-16T22:22:49Z")
Like someone else said, go to college first, so you can be an officer. If your vision is good, I’d go in the Air Force. Flying jets just seems like the coolest thing in the world to me! ---
**Author:** ![Omnipresent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@Omnipresent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omnipresent)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/31 "2003-11-16T22:31:38Z")
Yes, Mama Tiger, I’m sure a lot of people aren’t aware of the internal politics even in the military. There’s a hierachy within a hierachy. Even new officers who report for duty aren’t really given their due respect as an officer in general just because, “Hey, he’s a new guy”. The enlisted guy with three years in looks at the newbie officer that just arrived with casual dismissal. It’s just a social thing to a point. Even in the military. On the outsdie, the guy who’s been in the office for years will be polite to the new guy but, deep down, he doens’t pay much mind. Same in the military. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/32 "2003-11-16T23:26:32Z")
My first husband was an Air Force 90-day wonder (i.e. OTS grad), hence my awareness of the pecking order. And at his first job, he had to deal with chief master sergeants (top enlisted rank) with many, many years of experience who would tell him things like, “You know why they give those little gold bars to second lieutenants? So they can tell you from the officers!” Trust me, Rodney Dangerfield was very right for a butterbars. ---
**Author:** ![Xgemina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/b5e925/32.png) [@Xgemina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xgemina)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/33 "2003-11-17T05:33:50Z")
**faldureon** , everyone posting here has given some great advice, but I haven’t noticed you saying what you wanted to do. If you are wanting to use your degree every branch is working on expanding its information/computer security and electronic intelligence gathering (and I’m not talking about just battlefield ELINT). While the Air Force leads the way in this field, the Army is also expanding its capabilities and rank/responsiblity will probably be faster. I would advise you to speak with officer recruiters from all of the branches. > [@](#): > > One other question I had was about the rumors I keep hearing about the amount of drugs involved in the military. Some people I know make it sound like the drug problem in the army is worse then it is in some federal jails. Anyone care to tell me how true that is? I was a grunt in the Army (90-94); spent 2 years in a line company and then got a sham job in a brigade HHC. Speaking with some of the older guys it was a different situation in the 70s but I never noticed/knew more than a couple of occassional smokers. There was that pesky monthly random piss test thing that weeds most drug users out pretty quick. > [@](#): > > Just soooooo not up for a nine to five at this point in my life I would rather get shot at. I realize this was posted in jest, but I can tell you, and I don’t think I am speaking just for myself, the pleasures of getting shot at is highly overated. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/34 "2003-11-17T12:07:08Z")
For those recommending he go through college first, may I direct your eyes to this statment? > [@](#): > > \*, Originally posted by faldureon \* > **I am about to graduate with a bachelors in computer science.** ---
**Author:** ![T.Slothrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@T.Slothrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.Slothrop)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/35 "2003-11-19T09:16:45Z")
> [@](#): > > The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things. I disagree. breaking things is a perk. ---
**Author:** ![Anaclaidiabhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@Anaclaidiabhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaclaidiabhal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/36 "2003-11-19T16:56:22Z")
Just to recap (and I have experience with this; I’m in the Marine Corps and just got back from Iraqi Freedom:) Whatever branch you go into, if you like doing work, join the enlisted. If you like being a manager, and like having higher pay, go officer. Also, consider what you want to do with your life, and ask for an MOS (occupational specialty) that will coincide. This does not gaurantee that you’ll get it. I wanted intelligence, even had the ASVAB test scores for it, and the Marine Corps, in all its wisdom, put me in the infantry. I ended up humping 81mm mortar tubes all over God’s creation, and I never once got to fire the damn thing during the war. As for the other branches, I don’t know a whole lot about benefits, but I know they’re higher than Marines. If you want bragging rights for the hardest training and being probably the densest branch, that’s us, but that’s about it. The ratio of benefits to shit-taking is fairly unproportional in the Corps. ---
**Author:** ![Anaclaidiabhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@Anaclaidiabhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaclaidiabhal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/37 "2003-11-19T16:57:33Z")
Damn smiley. There was supposed to be a close parens colon in that first line. ---
**Author:** ![Matchka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Matchka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matchka)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277/38 "2003-11-19T19:11:55Z")
**go to college first, then join the military, if you still want to. You’d be going in as an officer, in other words management.** When I entered in 1992 this was not the case. Civilians were not being hired into OCS, the only way tograduate into officer-hood was to get your degree at an academy or do ROTC in college. things may have changed since then, however. Get the current scoop from the recruiter–they NEVER lie. Also, when I entered I had my degree and a hefty student loan. I was given the option to waive my GI bill & have the Army repay my loan for me–that ruled, see if they still offer _that_. The different branches will give you enlisted rank depending on how much education you have. You want current info on this too: in '92 Army admitted you as an the E-4 Specialist with a 4 year degree. Air Force gave you E-3 & Marines only E-2 (evidently they want you to have a different reason for enlisting). Officers still get shot at, they just get a 9mm instead of an M-16…talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight, I’d rather have the rifle! They also eat their share of the shit sandwich when it comes around. Pay for enlisted personnel, eve as far up as E-6, is digracefully low, welfare assistance is common. My MOS was 98 G (Military Intel/Arabic Linguist/Electronic Warfare). Basically, the job entailed scurrying around battlefields in a coupla Hummers, eavesdropping & IDing, translating & jamming radio traffic and having an all-around good time with roving Bradley teams (whom we would feed copiously in exchange for protection from the 2nd mightiest piece of equipment on the floor. I had a BLAST for the 2 years remaining of my enlistment after learning Arabic in Monterey, CA for 2 years. I’d do it again if I wasn’t old & fat. Of course, the way things are going even THAT may not save me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-army-navy-or-airforce-which-to-join/213277.md?page=1)