# Need advice for a friend - teaching English abroad **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 14, 2010, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902 "2010-01-14T06:25:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/1 "2010-01-14T06:25:18Z")
Hey all, So I have a very good friend who a couple years back graduated from Austin P. (sp?) University with a double major in English and Communications. Which he has hardly used extensively in the only job he can find locally - working at a call center for a cellphone company. I’ve urged him to GTFO of TN, and since his grandparents just passed away he now feels he can do that. He’s currently looking into the whole teach-english-abroad thing, and I thought I’d call on the SDMB members for advice with that. I know several of you have done so or are doing so, and I’d like to draw on your knowlege. Firstly, what should he look for in a placement agency? I know there are a bunch that run the gamut from scammy to scummy, and some tips on how to avoid those would be awesome. There are two programs that he’s looking at - Morgan Recruiting, which hooks you up with schools in Korea, and the Jet program in Japan. Any word on these two? Any other agencies you can recommend? Also, what can he expect once he gets there? How much fluency in the local tongue is expected? What will he have to deal with in terms of socializing, apartment-hunting, expat culture, culture shock, etc? Any other info you feel might be useful is muchly appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Polly\_Glot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9de053/32.png) [@Polly\_Glot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polly_Glot)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/2 "2010-01-14T09:56:35Z")
When I considered teaching English abroad many years ago, [Dave’s ESL cafe](http://www.eslcafe.com) online looked like a fantastic resource. Concerns like apartment hunting, good companies to work for, etc., are all amply addressed there. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/3 "2010-01-14T10:01:20Z")
Dave’s ESL Cafe can be helpful but take people’s advice there with a grain of salt - it’s pretty well known amongst ESL teachers for being a haven of the disgruntled and grouchy among us. I’ll post some more stuff tomorrow - I have a class tonight and then it’s home and bed after that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![nikonikosuru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f8ce5/32.png) [@nikonikosuru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikonikosuru)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/4 "2010-01-14T10:54:38Z")
JET can be a bit of a wild card. The experience can totally depend on where he is placed, the cooperation of the schools at the location, and the coworkers. For what it’s worth I have a friend who is on her second year in the program (this will be her last year) and although some things drive her nuts (mainly other JET coworkers and the schools) she does enjoy the kids, the community, and the stability of the job. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/5 "2010-01-14T18:49:46Z")
Duly noted - I’ll be sending him a link to this thread as well as to all the others I can find here on teaching abroad. The exact location overseas isn’t that important to him - South America or Europe would be just fine, doesn’t have to be Asia. (In other words, he’s not going into this just to Hook Up With Hawt Azn Chixxx.) even sven, IIRC you’re in the Peace Corps doing something similar - how do you feel about that route? I know you’re personally not happy in China, but in general is it a good system? ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/6 "2010-01-14T18:55:39Z")
More and more places are demanding TESL certification. What makes that interesting is there is no exact definition of what that certification entails, so various organizations just make up their own requirements. I got mine from Oxford Seminars, for various reasons: it only took a few weekends, it has a large organization and can help with placement, and its name makes it sound like a real school. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/7 "2010-01-14T19:06:59Z")
> [@Oni no Maggie](#): > > even sven, IIRC you’re in the Peace Corps doing something similar - how do you feel about that route? I know you’re personally not happy in China, but in general is it a good system? I taught English in Peace Corps, too. It can also be a total crapshoot. Peace Corps itself is a good program, but you can’t guarantee that you’re going to like the town or school you end up in, and Peace Corps has limited sympathy for moving you from town to town. If you have a serious problem with your living situation or your school, they’ll move you, but if you just find living in a village of 500 people boring or something, they’ll probably tell you just to suck it up. OTOH, Peace Corps has a lot of benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/8 "2010-01-14T20:09:11Z")
I have recently organized my TEFL folder of internet links, so here are some that might prove helpful: For general advice: [http://english-international.com/](http://english-international.com/) > **[Classroom Management Skills for Teaching English Abroad](https://www.transitionsabroad.com/listings/work/esl/articles/classroom-management-skills-for-teaching-english-abroad.shtml)** > > 4 key classroom management skills which are useful for anyone who wants to effective teaching English abroad. > **[The 4 Stages of Culture Shock (And How To Beat Them)](https://matadornetwork.com/bnt/the-4-stages-of-culture-shock-and-how-to-beat-them/)** > > Have you ever suffered from culture shock? Ross Tabak explains this phenomenon and how to get through it. [http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/tefl](http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/tefl) > **[Randall's ESL Blog - For ESL/EFL Teachers and Students](http://esl-lab.blogspot.com/)** > > Welcome to the ESL blog by the owner of www.esl-lab.com. Share ideas about learning English as a second or foreign language. Study abroad, ESL programs, accent reduction, ESL study Tips . . . Anything related to learning English and cultural... For Job Postings: [http://www.aacircle.com.au/](http://www.aacircle.com.au/) [http://www.tesol.org/s\_tesol/index.asp](http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/index.asp) > **[Home Page - ESL](https://www.eslcafe.com)** > > Welcome to Dave’s ESL Cafe, the leading destination for all things ESL. From job opportunities and teaching resources to grammar guides and community forums, we’re here to help you navigate the world of ESL. Whether you’re a teacher, learner, or... [http://www.teachenglishinasia.net/](http://www.teachenglishinasia.net/) [http://www.totalesl.com/job.php](http://www.totalesl.com/job.php) [http://www.esljobfeed.com/](http://www.esljobfeed.com/) > **[Teach English Abroad | Top Jobs, TEFL Certifications and Expert Guides](https://www.transitionsabroad.com/listings/work/esl/)** > > The guide to teaching English abroad, including jobs, TEFL certifications, expert articles and personal stories. Where and how to find the best jobs and TEFL certifications to teach and live abroad. [http://www.tesall.com/](http://www.tesall.com/) [http://www.totalesl.com/index.php](http://www.totalesl.com/index.php) [http://www.englishjobmaze.com/](http://www.englishjobmaze.com/) > **[ESL Jobs, TEFL Jobs, TESOL Jobs at ESLemployment.com](https://www.eslemployment.com/)** > > II►Free ESL / TEFL / TESOL jobs and career opportunities. Search the latest English Teaching jobs today at ESLemployment. > **[Teach English Abroad | Teach Abroad Programs | GoAbroad.com](https://www.goabroad.com/teach-abroad)** > > Learn all about teaching abroad! Use our reviews, guides, articles, comparison tool, and program matching services to find the best teaching job for you. [http://teach.studyabroad.com/](http://teach.studyabroad.com/) > **[Become an English teacher in Asia this year](https://saxoncourt.com/)** > > Find specialized jobs in your industry. Management, medical, IT, English teaching and more. Looking for employees? Let us handle your recruitment. > **[TEFL.com - English Language Teaching Jobs Worldwide](https://www.tefl.com/)** > > TEFL Jobs - Search the world's number one source for international English Language Teaching jobs | New jobs added daily in real-time | Search and apply in seconds via your browser or free App. If he’s really set on Japan, let me know, as I have a shit-ton of links for specific jobs and articles regarding life there. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/9 "2010-01-14T21:08:52Z")
> [@Oni no Maggie](#): > > Duly noted - I’ll be sending him a link to this thread as well as to all the others I can find here on teaching abroad. > > The exact location overseas isn’t that important to him - South America or Europe would be just fine, doesn’t have to be Asia. Europe would be extremely difficult for anyone who doesn’t have a European passport. He’d probably have to work illegally. Some people do it anyway and there are many discussions on various ESL boards on wether or not this is a good idea. I personally wouldn’t go there. I would advise your friend, if he’s serious about this, to invest in a TEFL course of at least 120 contact hours (which works out at about a month full-time). It should also include an observed teaching practice as well as come with an accredited qualification at the end of it. Though it may be possible to gain work without this, most of the better employers do ask for this as a minimum\*. Moreover, I found the TEFL course really useful. Native speakers in particular might _speak_ perfect English, but they aren’t always aware of the rules underlying their language and how to get those across to learners. Advice on how to find employment should also be part of the course and some TEFL course providers are even able to place some of their students. - In Europe, at least. On the other hand, the requirement of most schools that you have “at least one year of teaching experience” is, in my experience, very often waived if they cannot find enough teachers and should in no way stop anyone with little or no experience from applying. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/10 "2010-01-14T21:15:24Z")
Austin _Peay_ University, for the record. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/11 "2010-01-14T21:43:40Z")
I have no hard data, but instead an anecdote: I’ve heard the JET program is difficult to get into. I’ve heard they accept a small minority of those who apply. I heard this from a “friend of a friend” type thing, so take it for whatever it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/12 "2010-01-15T00:38:17Z")
Your friend is going to have a hard time finding ESL work in Europe simply because they have tons of qualified people to choose from, so they have the luxury of demanding things like teaching certification and relevant college degrees. The reason people flock to Asia is because standards are much more lax here - all you really need is a BA, unless you’re going to teach at a university or public schools. Plus living costs are lower (unless you live in Japan, maybe) and pay is better. Fluency in the local tongue is not really expected and many ESL teachers live here for YEARS without being able to say more than “Another beer please” and “Turn left here please.” The place that hires you will usually help you get settled in in terms of housing and other mundane stuff like Internet and furniture. The major cities have a good ex-pat community and it’s not too hard to meet people here as long as you’re proactive about it. If your friend comes to Korea I’d recommend he start out with the bigger schools first, like Chungdahm Learning, Avalon, Pagoda, etc, to help him get his bearings. They have the problems of any big corporation but they are a good way to meet a lot of other teachers and at least you don’t have to worry about getting screwed over too badly. (Smaller places are less scrutinized so can get away with a lot of shady stuff. On the other hand, some smaller places are much nicer - the thing is it’s totally dependent on the individual owner at that level.) I’m currently teaching in Korea, so my advice may not apply elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/13 "2010-01-15T01:30:41Z")
Eastern Europe needs ESL teachers more than Western Europe. Moldova or Bulgaria or Ukrain might be good choices. ---
**Author:** ![sulawesi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@sulawesi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sulawesi)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-for-a-friend-teaching-english-abroad/524902/14 "2010-01-16T02:03:50Z")
What kind of effect might teaching English abroad for a year or two, outside a structured program like JET, have on someone’s job prospects after coming back? It seems to me it could look bad on a resume (in terms of finding anything other than teaching ESL) and wouldn’t be helpful for developing job skills, but has anyone done it and found it to have benefits beyond being a temporary escape and broadening one’s horizons?