# Need advice on going to college or joining the military **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 15, 2014, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272 "2014-12-15T08:08:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/21 "2014-12-15T13:53:21Z")
Yes, go in informed, with your eyes open. The Marine Corps benefits helped me get my degree, Applied Mathematics, and Computer Science, and this helped me transition to a pretty good civilian career. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/22 "2014-12-15T14:11:01Z")
> [@JerrySTL](#): > > Also consider that if you don’t go to work in your civilian job, you can get fired. In the military you can wind up in jail. Civilian: late for work a few times, nobody may really care. Make it a habit, someone starts noticing and maybe documenting. You may get a warning. Make it chronic, and you may be fired. Military: late for work once and you’ll find yourself getting your ass reamed by someone who apparently thinks you’re not fit to breathe the same air as him. Late for work twice and you may lose part of your paycheck. You won’t get a chance to make a habit of it. ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/23 "2014-12-15T14:54:18Z")
I’m in the camp that will tell you not to entertain joining. You already have some things working against you: your attitude about serving (or those who serve) and focus on money. These are huge things that will not carry you through the rough times of your service, and you will wind up with crappy jobs and become very bitter. I would say that the best possible thing you can bring with you into service is a good attitude. You need to want to be there for the mission. That will get you the right kind of friends and the right kind of work ethic, which will lead to good things. Otherwise, you are wasting your time and those with whom you serve, and you will be asked to leave at the first opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/24 "2014-12-15T15:17:49Z")
I don’t think he has a bad attitude about everyone who served, just those he was exposed to and it was pointed out that everywhere there are people who will rub you wrong. I think his mindset is ok, in the OP he says he wants to do something meaningful and he is willing to make the change. Something you can talk to recruiters more about the Delayed Entry Program. When I enlisted the recruiters had morning and afternoon get-togethers for those waiting to get into boot camp. Exercise sessions, visiting Marines would often show up while home on R&R to talk with us, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/25 "2014-12-15T15:24:57Z")
If you were, say, Japanese, joining the military (the Self-Defence Force, in their case) might be a good idea, for some of the reasons mentioned here. However, since you seem to be in the US, enlisting is a very bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/26 "2014-12-15T16:21:08Z")
I’d consider it - I enlisted in the Coast Guard 27 years ago, planning to do it for 4 years and return to college (and for some of the same reasons as the OP-$ for college and experience). Things didn’t work out that way time-wise, but probably for the better. -I kept working with/for people I really liked and respected. -I was able to take classes mostly paid for by the Uncle Sam. -I was stationed in places I liked. -They sent me to Navy Dive School, and later, OCS and Navy flight training. -I was able to fly a plane and complete missions that have been some of the most demanding, scary and fulfilling things I’ve ever done. And do them with people I admired. Aaaaand, I have a great GI Bill (thanks, Sen Webb!) that I can transfer to my 2 kids for their first two years of college. So, I’d say go for it, and check out what the recruiters say. I tell my young neices and nephews to not be sucked into the recruiters tales of adventure and being turned into a touch mofo; in fact, I usually tell them to come talk to me after they speak to the recruiter, and to join various military fora that cater to prospective enlistees and look around. And I recommnend to go for the Air Force (not as much chance of getting shot at, great locations), or USCG (great missions and I’ve had a great experience), before considering the other branches. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/27 "2014-12-15T16:49:17Z")
I would caution against going to either the military or college to “find yourself” or because you “want to do something meaningful” unless you have some idea what that “something meaningful” might be. These things aren’t mutually exclusive. A stint in the military can help pay for college (I think) and a college education can put you on an officer track in the military (which is generally better). Keep in mind that both paths can also be an expensive waste of time. Spending college doing bong hits and keg stands for 4 years is useless. And I don’t know how much you get to select your career path (MOS) in the military, but I’ve met plenty of ex-military who told me that learning how to fire a machinegun has zero civilian world transferability. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/28 "2014-12-15T17:06:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I would caution against going to either the military or college to “find yourself” or because you “want to do something meaningful” unless you have some idea what that “something meaningful” might be. Not necessarily true. My nephew went into the Marine Corps a boy and came out a man. He did not want to do more than his initial stint but it was very beneficial. Same with me. I don’t know many 18-20 year olds that have a completely clear view of what their path should look like. > [@msmith537](#): > > These things aren’t mutually exclusive. A stint in the military can help pay for college (I think) and a college education can put you on an officer track in the military (which is generally better). The Post 9-11 GI Bill does a very good job of paying for college. Not only money for tuition you also get a housing allowance and a stipend for books and supplies. It is a much better program than has ever been given before. Most do not make the jump from enlisted to officer. Most officers have degrees before they become commissioned. I would not say the officer track is better. It is just different. A lot less leadership, a lot more staff work. It depends on your personality. If you want to see something accomplished become a NCO. If you want to spend a large portion of your career making PowerPoint slides become an officer. > [@msmith537](#): > > Keep in mind that both paths can also be an expensive waste of time. Spending college doing bong hits and keg stands for 4 years is useless. And I don’t know how much you get to select your career path (MOS) in the military, but I’ve met plenty of ex-military who told me that learning how to fire a machinegun has zero civilian world transferability. I can’t speak of the other branches but in the Army you know exactly what your MOS is before you sign the contract. And yes you have to make a choice between doing cool shit or doing something that you can transfer over to the civilian side. But if you are planning on college it probably doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/29 "2014-12-15T18:42:05Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not necessarily true. My nephew went into the Marine Corps a boy and came out a man. He did not want to do more than his initial stint but it was very beneficial. Same with me. I don’t know many 18-20 year olds that have a completely clear view of what their path should look like. I don’t think it needs to be completely clear, and it’s not written in stone. But one should have a general sense of the sort of things they might want to do and know they don’t want to do - run a business, build things, crunch numbers, lead people, help people, make money, so on and so forth. > [@Loach](#): > > Most do not make the jump from enlisted to officer. Most officers have degrees before they become commissioned. I would not say the officer track is better. It is just different. A lot less leadership, a lot more staff work. It depends on your personality. If you want to see something accomplished become a NCO. If you want to spend a large portion of your career making PowerPoint slides become an officer. Not much different from middle management anywhere then. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/30 "2014-12-15T19:36:00Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Not much different from middle management anywhere then. I suppose so. But most people don’t realize that an Army officer who has a 20 year career generally will be in command of troops for about 6 of those years. 18-24 months as a platoon leader 2LT. 18-24 months as a company commander CPT. 18-24 months as a battalion commander as a LTC. The rest is staff work at various levels. Of course every career is different and certain paths are a bit different. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/31 "2014-12-15T20:03:01Z")
No one has mentioned it yet, but how do you feel about going to war and getting shot at? Seriously, that’s what the military is for. Sure, we’re ramping down our wars now, but who knows what is going to happen in a few years? Would you have felt it worthwhile to risk your life in Afghanistan\*? If not, then don’t join. \*Let’s assume that we won’t have another “Iraq adventure” for a least a generation. Sort of like the time between Vietnam and Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/32 "2014-12-15T22:38:52Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > It depends on which financial reasons you mean. The salary isn’t bad once you get up to E-6 or E-7 pay with other allowances. But too many dumb privates get into trouble with their shitty E-3 pay. I disagree. On average privates make a lot more than their 18-20 year old counterparts back home. LOTS more. With enlistment/reenlistment bonuses, financially ignorant 19 year olds were driving around fancy BMWs and wearing crocodile shoes when I was in. (Of course the smart ones saved.) There may not be any bonuses anymore if the military is downsizing, but the pay grade was still better than you’d make flipping burgers. But your 35 year old E6-E7 is making a lot less than someone with a professional skillset and 15 years of seniority in almost any civilian job. A LOT less. But you get to retire at 38, so that’s a bonus. > [@Loach](#): > > However, the post 9-11 GI Bill is really quite good. As long as you walk into it with your eyes open, going in to get your college benefits is not a bad motivation. This was my financial motivation, and it paid off. I got the Illinois Veterans Grant to pay my tuition and book fees, and the GI bill was a monthly paycheck to live on on top of that. I don’t know if cash strapped states offer this deal anymore, though. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/33 "2014-12-15T22:44:31Z")
Of course, I only got a Bachelor’s out of the deal. I knew a guy with a Master’s and $60k in student loans, and the Army paid it off for him, 25% per year of his enlistment. So financially it might be better to rack up student loans to get an advanced degree, THEN enlist and have the Army pay it off. My experience is a decade out of date, so take it for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/34 "2014-12-15T23:32:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No one has mentioned it yet, but how do you feel about going to war and getting shot at? Seriously, that’s what the military is for. Sure, we’re ramping down our wars now, but who knows what is going to happen in a few years? Would you have felt it worthwhile to risk your life in Afghanistan\*? If not, then don’t join. > > \*Let’s assume that we won’t have another “Iraq adventure” for a least a generation. Sort of like the time between Vietnam and Iraq. Also, and perhaps more importantly, how do you feel about shooting at other people? Remember that the United States faces no _conventional_ military threats. Dying/being maimed in vain is terrible, but so is killing/maiming in vain. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/35 "2014-12-16T00:48:32Z")
Military and college aren’t your only choices; had this existed when I was your age I’d have jumped into [Americorps](http://www.nationalservice.gov/programs/americorps). It’s a service program, like a domestic Peace Corps. You may learn skills, or travel in the US or make tons of new friends and potential contacts and though you won’t bank any money it also won’t cost you the thousands in student loans college can. It’s easier to quit than the military for sure. From what I’ve seen you shouldn’t join the military; if you don’t feel like there’s a specific goal or place for you there you’ll probably be miserable and take others down w/ you. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/36 "2014-12-16T03:02:40Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > But your 35 year old E6-E7 is making a lot less than someone with a professional skillset and 15 years of seniority in almost any civilian job. A LOT less. But you get to retire at 38, so that’s a bonus. I disagree. If you are talking about base pay only, maybe. But add in housing allowances and such and an E7 is doing pretty well. Especially compared to salaries near most military bases. Of course retirement pay is based on base pay without allowances so you get 50% of that lower amount. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/37 "2014-12-16T04:58:14Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Not much different from middle management anywhere then. Well, it’s a little different. As a newly-minted Officer Cadet/2Lt, I was expected to be able to advise my Commander, in this case a Colonel, on matters that I was the Advisor. That doesn’t happen a lot in corporate world. FTR - I joined to have something to “fall back on” in case my plan of being a movie star didn’t work out. After a bad car accident left me not wanting to pursue a career in theatre, I was pretty happy to have the experience of being in the military and knew I could have a career there, if I wanted it. I will also say, if I had been a tad quicker to grasp that, and joined at 18, I’d be retiring this year. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272/38 "2014-12-17T23:27:29Z")
I can’t speak for the US but for the Cdn military the pay is almost bang on average compared to the civilian equivalent in the Air Force, and most other trades that are comparable. My salary was pretty much in the middle of the range as a Avionics Technician. Not bad, not great. To the OP: Joining the military strictly for the pay is a fool’s mission. Join because you want to contribute to your country in some way, but understand that with that commitment comes unlimited liability as mentioned above. How well would you be able to look someone’s daughter or son (or grandmother, for that matter) in the eye during a riot like Ferguson and know that you might have to do harm to them? That’s a pretty extreme example, but a realistic one. Or as an officer, have to make that call? Joining isn’t something you should do lightly, nor without doing some serious research. Having been a Debbie Downer, I can also say that I have met and worked with some truly brilliant people that I unhesitatingly will call friends for the rest of my life, and seen and done things I never would have otherwise. I spent 20+ years in the Air Force and have no regrets about it. YMMV. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-advice-on-going-to-college-or-joining-the-military/707272.md?page=1)