# NEED ANSWERS FAST - DCF Visit what are my rights? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 3, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602 "2017-11-03T15:57:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/21 "2017-11-03T20:03:54Z")
I’ve talked to a few people who used to work for CPS, and they always said permanently removing children from their parents was a LAST RESORT. Usually if there was a serious accusation a child would be removed for a few days and interviewed. Meanwhile other people would be investigating the parents and the home. The goal of this investigation is to determine if your son will be in danger of **serious** physical or emotional harm if left in your custody. If you’re a good parent you are well above the minimum standard. The agency doesn’t want to take your son away. That’s hard on him, a lot of work for the agency, and expensive for everybody. If they can return your son with an apology and a clear conscience, they will. In short, you’re almost certainly going to get your son back in a few days. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/22 "2017-11-03T20:14:20Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Nah, for the obvious reason: an abuser isn’t going to grant that permission, and it would be even more absurd than the already-absurd state of child protection laws if the state had to just say “shucks” every time an abusive parent (who otherwise controls essentially every vector of information in and out of the child’s life) shut down an investigation. Yeah, I thought of that after I posted. You couldn’t really grant veto power to the parents who are presumably the target of the investigation. > [@](#): > > It’s a very very different set of considerations from a criminal investigation, and the sort of thinking that can be very reasonable for the “accused” when dealing with police doesn’t really apply here. What I always told my clients – generally, at least – was: you’re the most helpful person in the world for CYS, you have infinite patience for their bullshit, it’s _totally_ reasonable that they show up with no notice and want to check to see if there are toys on the floor or any expired food in the fridge, you would _love_ to pee in a cup for them, of _course_ tomorrow afternoon five minutes after you get out of work would be a perfect time for a follow-up, and so on. Because in this context, if they go back to a judge and call you uncooperative, that’s going to end up being way more annoying for you than if you just got them in and out of your life. I certainly acquiesce to your experience and knowledge, but, boy would that be a bitter pill to swallow for a parent who knows they are not abusers or negligent. It would be difficult to cooperate with the government bureaucrats who are (seemingly) trying to ruin your family. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/23 "2017-11-03T20:53:47Z")
Oh, abso-fucking-lutely. It’s probably even worse than you think, I’m sorry to say. More reports are filed by abusers themselves than against abusers, I’d be willing to bet, because there are no repercussions for filing them, so it’s basically a free shot. Say you’ve got a person who abused their spouse and kids, who now doesn’t have primary custody of those kids, and has a protective order against them so they can’t contact them directly. Guess whether or not there are any repercussions for filing serial reports of abuse against the other spouse? Guess whether protective services must and will investigate each and every one of them regardless of the likely provenance? The reports can be made anonymously, so even in the cases where it’s egregious enough that anyone in authority might do anything about the abuse both of and via the process, that’s easily circumvented. It’s a nightmare all the way around. And then, as you hinted (I’ll be a lot less charitable than you), you’ve got some jerkoff lawyer saying “yeah, nothing to be done about the investigation; the best thing for you is to cooperate.” It’s fucked six ways from Sunday. It is, itself, abuse, and it has the imprimatur of a state agency. But in the context of a report that’s already been filed, it’s the state of things. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/24 "2017-11-03T21:05:05Z")
CPS investigator of eight years here. I PM’d you for details if you need specific advice. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/25 "2017-11-03T21:05:06Z")
I find this shit so frustrating. It’s a cosmic injustice that [things like this happen](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25970609/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/reports-details-philly-teens-horrific-death/#.WfzZxRNSyTc) at the same time as innocent people are persecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/26 "2017-11-03T22:59:38Z")
I expect the school would cooperate, regardless of your instruction - but that’s just a guess. At home I’d be civil, but under no circumstances would I allow them inside the house without a warrant, nor would I volunteer any information. All conversations would be recorded and announced as such. Essentially, I’d treat it like a police stop. They can lie or attempt to intimidate at their discretion so I’d keep that in mind. But realistically, I’d probably not even answer the door. Right now I don’t answer the door for anyone that I didn’t invite. I’ll take a look through the security cameras and that would be all. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/27 "2017-11-03T23:10:04Z")
**There should be no need for a lawyer. This is not good advice in NJ.** Remember \*\*DCF \*\*investigates every call in NJ. They are not short staffed the way social services are in NYC. They know a lot of the calls are not going to lead to anything more than a quick check. Cooperating with a drug screening should be simple enough and a lot cheaper than a lawyer. DCF also understands some of the calls are malicious in nature. Though mostly it is educators/care-givers erring on the side of caution to call professionals in to check out an uncertain situation. Yes, we have had a visit for DCF a few years ago about my son. My son has issues in school that led the school to contacting them. It was scary and a little traumatic but the people that came in were professional and did a good job. There was no need for a lawyer and we cooperated. In our case it actually helped my son. Though there was no accusation of abuse in our case, they were investigating possible neglect. Getting a lawyer will likely only make them lean towards be more suspicious of you. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/28 "2017-11-03T23:17:10Z")
Don’t let them in your house without a warrant. You have Constitutional rights; use them. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/29 "2017-11-03T23:23:21Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > **There should be no need for a lawyer. This is not good advice in NJ.** > > Remember \*\*DCF \*\*investigates every call in NJ. They are not short staffed the way social services are in NYC. They know a lot of the calls are not going to lead to anything more than a quick check. Cooperating with a drug screening should be simple enough and a lot cheaper than a lawyer. What do you mean by cooperating with a drug screening, like they take a sample of your blood? What’s the upside? Telling them to pound sand doesn’t require a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/30 "2017-11-03T23:25:37Z")
I wonder sometimes why anyone wats to do this job. It doesn’t pay that well and there is always this fine line between doing to much and not doing enough. Several times a year in this country a child dies and Social Services are slated for failing to prevent it. On the other hand we have incidents where a whole department gets the idea that there is something going on and starts snatching kids. There was a case in Scotland where they sincerely believed that there was a satanic cult involving child abuse - this led to dawn raids where screaming children were dragged off and placed in Homes. It took a couple of months for the investigators to decide that nothing was going on and the traumatized children were returned to their families. In another case, a pediatrician had a theory that she could identify sexually abused children by examining their backsides. On her say so, dozens of children were removed and several parents actually charged. When the “evidence” was examined, it was found to be totally unsupported. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/31 "2017-11-03T23:45:30Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I wonder sometimes why anyone wats to do this job. It doesn’t pay that well and there is always this fine line between doing to much and not doing enough. I think most people in this profession do so out of a noble desire to help children; perhaps having come from an abusive background themselves. And society very much needs such agents. But I also very firmly believe that some Child Protective Services workers see the job as a big personal power trip, whereby they get to threaten or legally screw over people they don’t like. In fact I think such CPS workers actually get an even bigger mental kick out of it if they know the family/parents are innocent; all the more anguish caused with a knowing smile to their victims. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/32 "2017-11-04T00:12:41Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > What do you mean by cooperating with a drug screening, like they take a sample of your blood? What’s the upside? Telling them to pound sand doesn’t require a lawyer. A drug screening means going to your local lab and peeing into a cup. It’s possible the state would even pay for it I’m not sure we didn’t have to go through that at least. The op says they don’t do drugs so taking the piss test should be easy as heck. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/33 "2017-11-04T00:36:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think most people in this profession do so out of a noble desire to help children; perhaps having come from an abusive background themselves. And society very much needs such agents. But I also very firmly believe that some Child Protective Services workers see the job as a big personal power trip, whereby they get to threaten or legally screw over people they don’t like. In fact I think such CPS workers actually get an even bigger mental kick out of it if they know the family/parents are innocent; all the more anguish caused with a knowing smile to their victims. Also, I think a lot of them just don’t have the training. We had to read this book, [Turning Stones](https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Stones-Nights-Children-Caseworkers/dp/0449912353), about a young guy shoved into casework in NYC and the lack of expertise and direction he has is just bone-chilling. At the end the guy tries to make the best out of a bad situation, essentially viewing the chaos as a necessary part of the job rather than a massive failure on behalf of the system. IIRC safety was also a huge concern. He had to go into dangerous neighborhoods by himself and make risk assessments entirely on his own. This is an example of someone in it for all the right reasons but incredibly unprepared for the job at hand. I was angry on his behalf. Though in the Phildelphia case I cited above, it was a pretty grisly case of fraud. Essentially the child protective workers had been contracted out (also an issue) and rather than making regular checkups on the girl, the caseworkers lied and said they did. And when the girl died, and their boss found out, the boss attempted to forge months of nonexistent progress reports to cover her own ass. In the end, I believe five social services workers were charged with the girl’s death (along with both parents and some of their friends.) Seriously bad shit, but representative of systemic issues of neglect and fraud on the part of caseworkers themselves. Which is not to disparage individual caseworkers whose experience and competence will likely vary dramatically. A lot of it is also geographical. I don’t think you’d see that level of corruption in a small town in Nebraska or anything. It’s just clear that child welfare as an entity has been plagued with systemic issues ranging from overtaxed and endangered workers to lack of effective training protocol to outright fraud. I’m a social worker, and one issue that plagues the profession in general is that ‘‘social worker’’ is a pretty ill-defined term which could mean anything from ‘‘walked in off the street and got this job with no history or education’’ to ‘‘has professional, graduate-level training and full licensure.’’ The kind of casework that our friend in _Turning Stones_ was doing paid so little that nobody with extensive education would be doing it and the professional qualifications were really very low. So we have a 20-something guy with no college education or experience interviewing a 7 year old girl with chlamydia. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/34 "2017-11-04T00:40:34Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > One of the things we studied (and this was actually a pretty controversial way to look at child welfare policy) was mandated reporting. In this case I would blame the law, not the doctor. The doc didn’t ‘‘decide’’ the child had been abused, his professional ass was on the line if he didn’t report what he realized was probably no big deal. The way the law is phrased, it’s not even a preponderance of evidence judgment, literally if there is any chance whatsoever that a child might have been abused or neglected, you are legally required to report it even if you are 99% sure it’s bullshit. > > **Mandated reporting, as I understand it, ties up the system with countless unfounded reports that take time and energy away from the more serious cases. This was years ago but the stat I remember is that 95-98% of mandated reports turn out to be unfounded.** The strain on the system has resulted in a lot more kids falling through the cracks. We should probably also dispense with the notion that parents being investigated are being ‘‘charged’’ with anything. When evidence for egregious criminal behavior exists, charges may be filed, but in most cases, it’s really more about figuring out if the child is in danger. CPS investigations often result in nothing. > > I’m not saying I’d be calm about it if it were my head on the chopping block, but these are the facts. The most comparable experience I’ve had, which is not exactly the same thing, is experiencing a significant delay in my approval for adoption because my name turned up in the CPS system. Any time you have any contact with CPS, including to file a report of suspected abuse, your name shows up, without any indication why it’s there. My name was in the system for having been abused as a child, not for being a perpetrator of abuse, but it was stressful as hell anyway. The county in which it had occurred was not returning their phone calls. I bent over backward to get them the information they wanted, though. It helped that I had been upfront with my adoption agency about my own abuse history, so they weren’t terribly unsurprised to see my name pop up there, but they were nonetheless required to confirm the details. I was just as cooperative as humanly possible until it blew over. Bolding mine. I am a mandated reporter. I don’t think this stat is true currently. I not familiar with the study using a statistical model you mention in a later post, but we don’t report “what is probably no big deal”. Here is the applicable state statute where I work “having reason to believe that a child under the age of eighteen (18) years has been abused, abandoned or neglected or who observes the child being subjected to conditions or circumstances which would reasonably result in abuse, abandonment or neglect shall report…” We don’t report lightly and, as far as I am aware, we don’t report without discussing it as a team. We are parents ourselves and know that kids hurt themselves constantly. We also don’t report anonymously. We also, fortunately, don’t have to report frequently. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/35 "2017-11-04T00:58:56Z")
I am not doubting how you handle these situations, but “have reason to believe” is pretty vague and open to interpretation. Given that guideline, I can see others making a lot more reports. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/36 "2017-11-04T01:23:53Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > Bolding mine. > > I am a mandated reporter. I don’t think this stat is true currently. > I not familiar with the study using a statistical model you mention in a later post, but we don’t report “what is probably no big deal”. > Here is the applicable state statute where I work > > “having reason to believe that a child under the age of eighteen (18) years has been abused, abandoned or neglected or who observes the child being subjected to conditions or circumstances which would reasonably result in abuse, abandonment or neglect shall report…” > > We don’t report lightly and, as far as I am aware, we don’t report without discussing it as a team. We are parents ourselves and know that kids hurt themselves constantly. We also don’t report anonymously. We also, fortunately, don’t have to report frequently. I’m not an expert on this, I just knew one a long time ago. But I was really fascinated by his approach. It was not well-received by the folks at my school because he is a Republican, and if you’re wondering how in the hell a Republican became the Dean of a School of Social Work, join the club. He is very well regarded in his circle though and was even interviewed on [PBS Frontline](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/fostercare/inside/gelles.html) as an expert in child welfare policy. His approach reached me because I’m very data-driven in my approach to solving problems and I thought he presented a very compelling case. The substantiation of a mandated report apparently varies widely by professional category. According to [this testimony he gave](http://www.childprotection.state.pa.us/Resources/press/2012-05-03%20Richard%20Gelles.pdf) to the Pennsylvania Task Force on Child Protection, (based on 2009 data presented in 2012), the professionals most likely to result in a substantiated report are coroners (66.6%), hospital personnel (22.9%), psychiatrists (17.6%) and other social service agencies (18.6%). School personnel reports are substantiated about as often as anonymous reports (5%.) So that statistic may be more or less true depending on the kind of professional you are. It also depends on the standards your particular org. uses for mandated reporting. I’m technically a mandated reporter even though I have no contact with children in my job, because I work at a domestic violence and sexual assault agency, and we were instructed to report any inkling of suspicion of child abuse no matter how small. My husband is a mandated reporter also. Yes it’s definitely something he does after discussing with his team, and I wouldn’t be allowed to file a report without first discussing it with my supervisor. I’m dealing largely with aggregate data, I’m sure individual circumstances vary significantly. It should also be clear that the level of evidence required to ‘‘substantiate’’ a report varies widely from state to state, in fact in New Jersey (or is it PA? I lived and worked in NJ but went to school in PA at the same time, so it’s easy to conflate them) there are three categories, founded, substantiated and unfounded. In PA you might have a total of 3,000,000 reports, 1,000,000 of which are found to be substantiated, but only half of those substantiated incidents will result in providing services or further contact with CPS. So, out of all total reports in a given year, 1 in 3 is substantiated, and 1 in 6 results in further services. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/37 "2017-11-04T01:36:23Z")
A big obvious failure is the absence of accountability or any kind of checks-and-balances. It seems like all the horror stories that make the news from time-to-time — that is, horror stories that make DCF/whatever the bad guys — could have been prevented by having checks-and-balances early-on in the system, or ways for the parents to demand an unbiased “second opinion”, or ways for the abusive workers in the system to be held accountable. As far as we can usually tell (at least from the stories as reported in the papers), these are absent. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/38 "2017-11-04T01:50:01Z")
Thank you for that cite **Spice Weasel**. That is very interesting. I will point out that the definition of abuse used in Pennsylvania is substantially different than the one I quoted. Still thought provoking. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/39 "2017-11-04T01:55:20Z")
No offense to OP, and not to derail: I see a lot of speculation, accusations, and disinformation in this thread about CPS. Would anyone be interested in an Ask Me Anything Thread? I’ve been in the line of work enough that I am jaded enough to give honest answers good or bad and am fairly blunt anyway. If a few posts are in agreement I will start a thread. I can’t say every state is the same but can say mine is one of those sued for gross negligence before I was hired and is still in the process of improving. A lot has changed, and it is interesting to see the difference between states who have been forced to deal with the issue of underfunded CPS and those who have not yet had to deal with it. edit: As long as I can remain anonymous I can be pretty straightforward about the strengths as well as the shortcomings of the system. At the end of the day I do work for a fairly unforgiving government and a guy has to eat and all. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602/40 "2017-11-04T02:02:35Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’m not an expert on this, I just knew one a long time ago. But I was really fascinated by his approach. It was not well-received by the folks at my school because he is a Republican It probably has less to do with his being a Republican than with his challenging ingrained beliefs. I’ve read some pretty thorough studies debunking the AA approach, which is the model for most rehab facilities-- you know, that 1) you have to go to meetings for the rest of your life, and 2) that if you have ever been physically addicted to anything, you can never be a social drinker again. Just as an additional little “I know anecdote isn’t data, but if I even know a few examples, it certainly debunks AA’s absolutism” I know two people who went through rehab, and later were non-problematic social drinkers, plus one person who drank really heavily after his divorce, to the point that he used to pass out most evenings, but later became a very, very infrequent social drinker. Plus, I know about a dozen people who went to AA, got sober, quit AA after many years of going to meetings religiously, and still don’t drink at all. One takes anti-depressants, and quit AA because she got so much flack for “pill-popping,” and how it didn’t matter if it came from a doctor, it would ruin her sobriety. I realize that’s OT to the CPS topic, but my point is that there are a lot of cherished truths about child abuse, its causes and predictors, that just aren’t so, but when ideas get entrenched, they are very hard to dig loose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-answers-fast-dcf-visit-what-are-my-rights/800602.md?page=3)