# need car maintenance advice on brake rotors... Am I getting bullshat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 28, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937 "2011-09-28T22:46:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/21 "2011-09-29T13:40:00Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Again, when you drove the car to the mechanic, was there anything at all in the way the car operated that would lead you to believe that there was a mechanical problem with the brakes or suspension? If the car brakes as normal and if there are no noises or sensations that indicate damage to the suspension, the chance that there is an undiagnosed problem that will cause catastrophic failure of these components is next to nil. That’s my gut feeling too, based on first principles knowledge of what parts are involved. Thanks for all the replies. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/22 "2011-09-29T13:54:28Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > $6500 in maintenance over an 8 year span for a late model Subaru with no miles seems high in general. This shop sounds like they make a habit of price gouging. This was my thought, too. I don’t think I’ve spent half that on my one year older car with more than 3 times as many miles and I stick pretty close to the maintenance schedule (but do some stuff myself). ---
**Author:** ![MobiusStripes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@MobiusStripes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MobiusStripes)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/23 "2011-09-29T14:10:01Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > One more thing 1.6 kilo bucks feels high for struts and brakes on your car. If you were driving a European car (MBZ, BMW, Volvo) these prices would be in line, but for a scooby-doo? Those parts are way cheap in my experience. > I could be wrong but those prices just feel high to me. > Get a second opinion would be my advice. I agree with this. Brakes pads and rotors are fairly inexpensive and are really easy to change yourself. Can you change a tire? You’re half way there. I seem to recall it cost me less than $100 to change the front pad and rotors on my wife’s car last year. It took me 30 min to do the first tire (first time I tried!) and 15 min to do the second. I only had to change both because she had driven the brake pads to nothing (as in, zero thickness) and was grinding huge grooves in the otherwise fine rotor. The shock/strut thing is a different issue. But $1600 sounds high to me for 4 rotors, 4 pads and 4 shocks/struts, if that’s even what they had in mind. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/24 "2011-09-29T14:58:54Z")
Yeah, I do routine maintenance stuff like this now on my motorcycle, doing it for my car can’t be much more complicated… And at least this Forester fits up my driveway so I can work on it. My other cars have all been too wide to fit up my narrow 1929 driveway (for that matter, the 2006+ model year Foresters can’t either, another reason I’ve stuck with the '03 model for so long). ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/25 "2011-09-29T15:02:12Z")
> [@MobiusStripes](#): > > The shock/strut thing is a different issue. But $1600 sounds high to me for 4 rotors, 4 pads and 4 shocks/struts, if that’s even what they had in mind. Napa prices: Rotors about $90 each Pads about $60/axle Struts about $125/wheel Shade Tree guy lays out about $980 in parts for that job. Call it an even $1k for brake fluid, rags, band-aids & hand cleaner. For labor, maybe $50 for the brakes. But the struts are a gawdammed PITA and can take 15-60 minutes per wheel. Then you’ll need to get an alignment when it’s all put back together. I could see doing that whole job for$1,250 (not counting the $50-75 alignment). But it’ll take me a day or two cuz I got the kids to look after, the regular job to go to, tools to find in the garage my kids have trashed… Sometimes a professional mechanic is not such a bad idea. Costs a little more but he’s got time to correct stuff he doesn’t do right the first time around. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/26 "2011-09-29T15:08:10Z")
Sounds like the typical rip-off joint. Every car that comes in needs minor brake work that is highly profitable for the shop, if they do anything at all. Times are tough, and this kind of thing is occuring with increasing frequency. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/27 "2011-09-29T15:19:31Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > Well I’m getting the car this morning sans brakes work, which the guy told me on the phone is really dangerous and he nearly failed my state inspection over it but let me go because he’s known me for so long, if I promised to “take care of it soon”. Rather than outright accuse him of chicanery (especially if somehow he’s not guilty), I begged off on financial grounds (the work added up to almost $1800, ouch). > > I guess I’ll take it to another mechanic for a “second opinion”? Unless the question “do I need new brake rotors” gets a traditional answer of “yes” if the alternative is no work to bill at all? > > How could I best get a straight answer I can trust here? I’d be right up front with whomever you take it to. Tell them you think you got a fish story from another garage and that you want a second opinion on the state of your brakes/front end. Don’t use a gas station mechanic, unless he’s recommended by somebody. You might consider taking it to your local Subaru dealer. ---
**Author:** ![MobiusStripes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@MobiusStripes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MobiusStripes)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/28 "2011-09-29T15:27:23Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Napa prices: > Rotors about $90 each > Pads about $60/axle > Struts about $125/wheel > > Shade Tree guy lays out about $980 in parts for that job. Call it an even $1k for brake fluid, rags, band-aids & hand cleaner. For labor, maybe $50 for the brakes. But the struts are a gawdammed PITA and can take 15-60 minutes per wheel. Then you’ll need to get an alignment when it’s all put back together. I could see doing that whole job for$1,250 (not counting the $50-75 alignment). But it’ll take me a day or two cuz I got the kids to look after, the regular job to go to, tools to find in the garage my kids have trashed… Sometimes a professional mechanic is not such a bad idea. Costs a little more but he’s got time to correct stuff he doesn’t do right the first time around. 😃 Fair enough! I looked up the strut replacement for my vehicle and while doable, it’s such a chore I’d take that to a mechanic. (Especially if I didn’t have a backup car to drive when I screw it up and have to make the inevitable trip or three back to the store for one more part.) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/29 "2011-09-29T15:45:44Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Napa prices: > Rotors about $90 each > Pads about $60/axle That seems really expensive for rotors and pads. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/30 "2011-09-29T17:34:29Z")
Eh, I’m sure you can get $20 pads somewhere but they’ll probably be made of wood. And rotors vary crazy amounts in price. I like my old Toyotas because they’re dead easy to replace and are only like $45. Other cars will run a couple hundred each sometimes. Just kinda random (or related to expected performance demands, materials and specs) I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/31 "2011-09-29T17:43:55Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Eh, I’m sure you can get $20 pads somewhere but they’ll probably be made of wood. And rotors vary crazy amounts in price. I like my old Toyotas because they’re dead easy to replace and are only like $45. Other cars will run a couple hundred each sometimes. Just kinda random (or related to expected performance demands, materials and specs) I guess. I just realized the pad price was _per axle_ which is $30 per side which is more in line. But $90 per rotor still seems really expensive. Even when I’ve changed rotors in big E350s or Chevy Expresses they were only like $50 or $60 IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/32 "2011-09-29T18:02:09Z")
How long does the car sit at one time, days, weeks, months? If your car sits for months at a time, you can rust the rotors to the point where you will have a high spot under the brake pads. The pads basically rest on the rotor and protect that part of the rotor that’s under them. Now when you start driving after a cars been sitting for months you might feel a pulsing in the break pedal when you stop once you knock the rust off, and if the protected spot is high enough the steering wheel may jerk back and forth or a tire may lock up when you break. When that would happen in the past they would machine the rotor back to true and you’d be on your way, but today most rotors can’t be machined at all, they are now a replacement item. They do that to save weight. So if your car sits for months you could need new rotors if the difference between the high and low spots are great enough. Your mechanic should have taken measurements, not hard to do, and should have been able to show you they were out of specs. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/33 "2011-09-29T18:17:15Z")
Put me on the getting Frewed side. First indicator is: Them: What type of rotors do you have? You: IDK. You installed them. Them: 😕 Second indicator: coating + rotor = bad I always learned to clean the rotor with brake cleaner just in case you got fingerprints on them during the install. Rotors are pretty straight forward unless you are getting high-end heat disapation rotors for street racing. Brake pads don’t really get expensive unlike in the past when cost related to the ratio of metal to ceramic. Estimated price $50/rotor but for my SRT-4, I went with the $70 ones because they were thicker. For you $90/rotor sounds excessive. Brake pads can be as low as $30/pair so at $60/par, you should be getting top of the line pads or could (and probably) means a 100% markup. The only way they are not screwing you is if those prices include labor. Oh wait! $140 in labor to replace brakes? Yeah you are getting screwed either way. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/34 "2011-09-29T18:27:05Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Put me on the getting Frewed side. First indicator is: > Them: What type of rotors do you have? > You: IDK. You installed them. > Them: 😕 My dad pulled that one successfully once. He brought his car to the shop to tell them the rotors were warped. The replaced them and handed him the repair bill. He asked (he’s good at playing dumb, he already knew what the answer was) why rotors would warp and they told them it’s either because they were bad rotors, they were improperly installed or the lug nuts weren’t tightened correctly. His reply: “Well, it’s your rotor, your mechanics installed it and the only people who have ever touched the lug nuts on these tires are this dealership” They waived the bill. I think part of the problem was that he had just them put a new set of rotors on about 6 months earlier and they had already warped. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/35 "2011-09-29T18:34:56Z")
Just looked up some prices at work for the car. Hot damn is Subaru proud of their prices. Way more expensive than Toyota and Nissan. Using top quality parts pads and rotors all the way around plus all 4 struts would be right at 2 kilo bucks assuming their parts sell at MSRP and their labor hours and rates match mine. ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/36 "2011-09-29T18:42:51Z")
Subaru also uses a Torx T70 bit for their torque converter drain. AFAIK, they are the only car mfr to use that size torx! Some heavy duty GMC trucks use it but I think those are the only applications for it. Snap On doesn’t make it, ask me how I know 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/37 "2011-09-29T19:27:17Z")
So how do you know that? D: ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/38 "2011-09-30T13:33:56Z")
Very apropos repairs were performed on my own Subaru yesterday. I took my wife’s car in to have a bad bearing replaced on the back right wheel (the back left went a year and a half ago). The mechanic called me a few hours later and told me that the brakes were probably the problem and that they were all rusted out, and that there was a big chunk missing from the right rotor. This matched my driving experiences with the car: Mixed in with what I thought was bad bearing noise was the pulsating brake pedal when slowing down from highway speeds. Not only was the brake job cheaper than the bearing, but he thinks that’s all that was needed. When I went to pick up the car yesterday he showed me the rotor—it looked like a piece of the surface the size of a quarter had simply flaked off, to a depth of a few millimeters. He blamed it on the new anti-icing treatment that they are using on New Jersey roads prior to snow storms. That’s the stuff that they spray that leaves the parallel stripes down the highway. I don’t know if that’s really the case, but I trust him—I’m sure that _he_ believes that to be true. Do they use the same newfangled spray on New York roads? ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/39 "2011-09-30T15:28:08Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > So how do you know that? D: Had a customer call me in a panic, he needed one. I said sure I’ll be right over, not thinking that we didn’t make one. Pullout the handy dangy master set and voila! 60 was as high as it went! Checked the book and sure enough SO does not make one. Customer was Not Amused. Matco guy got him a taiwanese made one that did the job but still… ---
**Author:** ![Marconi\_N.Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Marconi\_N.Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marconi_N.Cheese)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937/40 "2011-10-01T04:39:07Z")
[hijack] My Subaru has the OEM gauge pack. The oil drain plug (with sensor) takes a 27mm wrench. That’s one hefty wrench. [/hijack] Let us know how it turns out, **robardin**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-car-maintenance-advice-on-brake-rotors-am-i-getting-bullshat/597937.md?page=3)