# Need help choosing a Kurosawa flick **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 8, 2007, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310 "2007-02-08T04:01:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/1 "2007-02-08T04:01:27Z")
I’m thinking about buying a pricey copy of either Rashomon, Yojimbo, Ran, or Seven Samurai. I’m leaning toward Ran, given its epic sweep, cinematic majesty and pretty colors. Kurosawa is said to have considered Ran his greatest achievement, but the consensus opinion among US film critics leans toward Shichinin no samurai (aka “Seven Samurai”) as ichi ban. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/2 "2007-02-08T04:25:37Z")
I’d suggest **Ran**. Assuming you’re picking a pricey copy in order to go for high-quality/special extras (and not just to have something that looks good on the shelf), I’d go for Ran. Even if more people think Seven Samurai’s a better movie, Ran’s still a better movie to look at. It’s also what I would pick as I prefer it to the others (but I know I’m not a majority of critics). ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/3 "2007-02-08T04:25:54Z")
Seven Samurai is pretty much perfect in every way. Great acting, great scenes, great everything. It’s a perfect movie that people try to copy. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/4 "2007-02-08T04:28:42Z")
[QUOTE=Carnac the Magnificent!] I’m thinking about buying a pricey copy of either Rashomon, Yojimbo, Ran, or Seven Samurai. I’m leaning toward Ran, given its epic sweep, cinematic majesty and pretty colors. Kurosawa is said to have considered Ran his greatest achievement, but the consensus opinion among US film critics leans toward Shichinin no samurai (aka “Seven Samurai”) as ichi ban. Thoughts? [/QUOTE] I’m going to go with Seven Samurai here. I may sound like a heretic but Ran started to get boring and even though SS is a long movie it never got boring. I also like Yojimbo and Sanjuro a lot and they’re considerably shorter. Marc ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/5 "2007-02-08T04:29:52Z")
Yojimbo. Seven Samurai is very nice, but the pacing hurts me a little. Rashomon is awesome, I’d put that second to Yojimbo. Ran - it’s been too long since I saw it. But Yojimbo is my favorite Kurosawa. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/6 "2007-02-08T04:49:24Z")
[QUOTE=panamajack] I’d suggest **Ran**. [/QUOTE] The Hollywood remake, **Also Ran** , is nowhere near as good. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/7 "2007-02-08T05:19:24Z")
For a purchase, I’d also go with **Ran** , but have you seen **High and Low** (sometimes titled **Heaven and Hell** )? It’s set in present-day (mid-60’s at the time) Tokyo, about a wealthy businessman (Toshiro Mifune) whose son is kidnapped for a huge ransom right when he’s leveraged everything he owns to save his company. He quickly decides that his son’s life is more valuable than anything he owns and agrees to pay, but he then discovers the kidnappers didn’t get his son, they got his chauffeur’s son by mistake. Does he still go through with it? If you follow Japanese film, the kidnapper is played by Tsutomu Yamazaki, who played the lead in **Tampopo** , as the trucker who saves the window’s ramen shop. He’s also starred in most of Juzo Itami’s other pictures, as well. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/8 "2007-02-08T05:22:54Z")
I would go with either Yojimbo or Seven Samurai. Yojimbo is a dark comedy of sorts, with a strong dose of cynicism mixed in with the action. It was later remade A Fistful of Dollars, and again as Last Man Standing. Seven Samurai is one of the greatest films of all time, and has a little bit of everything, finishing up with a beautifully savage fight. Magnificent Seven was based on this movie. Ran is good, but I like the others better. And as far as Kurosawa adapting Shakespeare, Throne of Blood is much more powerful. (Ran is based on King Lear, Throne of Blood is based on Macbeth.) I tried to watch Rashomon but I found the pacing way too slow for my tastes. I might have to try again. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/9 "2007-02-08T05:45:56Z")
Luckily for you, every single Kurosawa film mentioned in this thread (as well as a few others) is available from the Criterion Collection, which means you’ll get excellent transfers and subtitles and extras. Of the ones you mentioned, I’d go with Seven Samurai, but you shouldn’t really be disappointed with any of them. My personal favorite Kurosawa is **Ikiru** , but it’s not an action/samurai movie, so I don’t know if it would be what you’re into. ---
**Author:** ![TristramAiblins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@TristramAiblins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TristramAiblins)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/10 "2007-02-08T06:15:06Z")
I’m watching Yojimbo for the first time right now, and it is much more entertaining than Seven Samurai. However, IMO Seven Samurai is the better movie. Rashomon is on the same plane as Seven Samurai in that it’s a little slower paced but more rewarding. I haven’t seen Ran yet, but I’ve heard good things about it. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/11 "2007-02-08T06:28:43Z")
_Ran_ is more bang for the buck, in terms of feet (or minutes) of film and visual flair, but _Rashomon_ says more about the essential intangibility of memory and perception (and has some awesome cinematography, to boot). If I had to have only one, _Rashomon_ would be it. I’m not clear on the draw of _Shichinin no samurai_; it’s a great film, mind you, but really a second-ran in comparison to other Kurosawa films like _The Hidden Fortress_, _High And Low_, _Kagemusha_, _Ikriru_, and even the underrated _Ikimono no kiroku_. I get the feeling that _The Seven Samurai_ is so aplauded because of its association with _The Magnificent Seven_, another good but overrated film. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/12 "2007-02-08T07:17:46Z")
\*Rashomon \* by a mile, then _The Hidden Fortress_. Then the “cowboy movies”: _Yojimbo, Seven Samurai, Sanjuro_ (all remade as Westerns). I personally am not a huge fan of \*Ran. Throne of Blood \* is better, for Kurosawa’s color films. (In any case, once you’ve seen some Kurosawa, try to track down some Mizoguchi. Mizoguchi, who IIRC was something of a mentor to Kurosawa, makes Kurosawa looke like Ron Howard; he’s, like, the Japanase Bergman. The only title currently available in the US is the Criterion ed. of [_Ugetsu_](http://onfilm.chicagoreader.com/movies/capsules/8732_UGETSU), but there are used VHSes floating around of his other titles. [\*Sansho the Bailiff \*](http://onfilm.chicagoreader.com/movies/capsules/10651_SANSHO_THE_BAILIFF) and\* [Street of Shame](http://onfilm.chicagoreader.com/movies/capsules/10651_SANSHO_THE_BAILIFF) \* are my other favorites of his; all of his movies are absolutely essential.) ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/13 "2007-02-08T07:19:58Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] I get the feeling that _The Seven Samurai_ is so aplauded because of its association with _The Magnificent Seven_, another good but overrated film. [/QUOTE] I agree on all points; \*The Magnificent Seven \* is a mediocre film. John Sturges made some good movies, but never IMO a great one. \*TMS \* is not his best. ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/14 "2007-02-08T08:24:56Z")
Surprised it hasn’t been mentioned yet, but _Dreams_ (Kurosawa’s last film) is in a class of its own…it’s nothing like anything he’s done before - it’s like looking at a moving painting (which is appropriate, since one of the segments features Martin Scorcese playing Van Gogh) Rashomon is still my favorite though…every time I watch that movie, I philosophize for hours. To get back to the OP though, Criterion just re-released Seven Samurai on a 3 disc set, which also comes with a book. That’s probably the best “pricey” buy you can do. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/15 "2007-02-08T12:30:02Z")
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird] My personal favorite Kurosawa is **Ikiru** , but it’s not an action/samurai movie, so I don’t know if it would be what you’re into. [/QUOTE] No swordplay, but it sure goes after your tear ducts violently with a pair of plyers. There’s also [Dersu Uzala.](http://imdb.com/title/tt0071411) No swords there, either, but one of the best outdoor adventure movies made. (I never did see how “Hidden Fortress” was remade into “Star Wars.” I’m thick) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/16 "2007-02-08T12:41:10Z")
I haven’t seen Yojimbo, discovered Kurosawa through the international success of Ran. Ran is great but the one that was completely unique to me (hey, Seven Samurai has been so copied that it feels “used” unless you remind yourself it was first) was Rashomon. I got Dad to record it one night it was on at 3am; he and Mom started watching it with me because they wondered what could be so good about a movie in Japanese with English subtitles… so there I am, watching Rashomon subtitled and translating the subtitles for my parents… and they watched it till the end and loved it! _refrains from spoilerizing the moment when they had to stop the VCR because they were laughing too hard_ ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/17 "2007-02-08T13:47:37Z")
I think that **Yojimbo** is the most fun and the first movie to pull out if your friends don’t want to see Kurusawa. I also liked **Ikuru**. But I’d also say that **Roshomon** is probably the best if you’re choosing for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/18 "2007-02-08T14:24:57Z")
I’ve never seen _Ran_ or _Hidden Fortress_. They’re both at the top of my “must-see” list. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/19 "2007-02-08T14:59:52Z")
\*Ran \* and \*Seven Samurai \* are still on my queue. \*Yojimbo \* is one of my favourite movies (not just Kurosawa’s) and \*Dreams \* is a must see, like it or hate it. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310/20 "2007-02-08T15:27:53Z")
Of the A.K. films I’ve seen **Ran** is my favorite. People keep telling me **Rashomon** is a good film but that’s not how I remember it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-choosing-a-kurosawa-flick/391310.md?page=2)