# Need help figuring out this book- at least 2 decades old **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 4, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897 "2011-11-04T21:31:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/21 "2011-11-09T00:52:16Z")
I was excited at this possible solution to the intriguing mystery, but at the risk of being a wet blankent, I don’t think the Ruth Arthur book sounds like what the OP originally had in mind. Compare the two descriptions: [Reader review of Ruth Arthur, _On the Wasteland_ (1975):](http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/6922587) > [@](#): > > Betony Alison Craig, an orphan living at the Brackenbury Children’s Home in Suffolk, keeps her loneliness in check and the world at bay by withdrawing further and further into a world of fantasy and dreams in this later Ruth M. Arthur title. Betony’s feelings of recognition when she first sees the Wasteland - a desolate territory by the salt marshes - her sense of connection to the land and its history, create a place of refuge to which she withdraws at every opportunity. As Betony begins to witness ghostly echoes of the past, first seeing a Viking long-ship, then hearing the actual voices of those long-ago invaders, she becomes more and more enmeshed in the past… > > […] The story has a neat symmetry to it, with the echoes of the past saving Betony from her early isolation and her growing friendships saving her from the past. OP’s recollections: > [@](#): > > It is about a girl who moves to live with her father when she is 11 or 12, somewhere on the east coast. > > There is a boggy/fenlike area instead of beach, where there is about 20 yards of water that is only about six inches deep, but right before this girl moved here, a kid drowned, so the area is mostly avoided, as who could drown in six inches of water. > > There is only one habitation near the water, which belongs to a rather odd, possibly witchy woman who befriends the girl. > > The girl begins having these odd fugue moments when she is down at the water, where she is living the life of a girl her age in Norse settled early (pre-English-colonist) America (caveat; this may be eastern Canada), and she is in love and betrothed to a viking. > > At some point (perhaps what started the fugues) she finds a viking artifact, apparently authentic, and learns more about them from the woman in the house by the sea. > > The book ends with her nearly drowning in six inches of water as she attempts to swim out to sea to follow her love in the viking boats, as she knows from this life that the ships will never return as the woman in the house told her of the history of the early viking colony. […] > > the girl didn’t like her house or her dad, and looked on these fugues as a better life and wanted to be an adult, as she was in the other life. Far from being scary, it was a welcome interruption in her life. […] > > There were not any other young people in the book “Girl in orphanage on Suffolk coast” doesn’t quite sound like “girl goes to live with father on eastern North American coast”. There seems to be no indication that the alter-ego viking girl Estrith in the Ruth Arthur book is an adult or has a lover. Also, there’s no mysterious witchy woman, and the setting is an orphanage where presumably there’d be quite a few other children around, not a girl living in isolation with a father whom she dislikes. But childhood memories can be very fluid, so the OP should definitely get the book and tell us if it’s the one she remembers! ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/22 "2011-11-09T00:52:58Z")
> [@gurujulp](#): > > I am in Berkeley, CA, now- any near me? It doesn’t look like there’s anything closer than Fresno, although I’m not really familiar with California county names so some of these county libraries may be somewhere in your area. Here’s all the holdings I found for CA in WorldCat. This list may not be totally accurate – WorldCat was showing this book as being owned by the public library in the next county over from mine, but I just checked that library’s online catalog and didn’t see it there. Butte County Library California State University, Fresno Colusa County Free Library Nevada County Library Oxnard Public Library San Jose State University Shasta Public Library Sutter County Library If you are affiliated with UC Berkeley then I’m sure their library could get a copy for you through Inter-Library Loan. Your local public library may or may not be able to do the same. However, it’s likely a used copy from Amazon would be faster. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/23 "2011-11-09T00:59:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I was excited at this possible solution to the intriguing mystery, but at the risk of being a wet blankent, I don’t think the Ruth Arthur book sounds like what the OP originally had in mind. Compare the two descriptions: > > [Reader review of Ruth Arthur, _On the Wasteland_ (1975):](http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/6922587) > OP’s recollections: > “Girl in orphanage on Suffolk coast” doesn’t quite sound like “girl goes to live with father on eastern North American coast”. There seems to be no indication that the alter-ego viking girl Estrith in the Ruth Arthur book is an adult or has a lover. Also, there’s no mysterious witchy woman, and the setting is an orphanage where presumably there’d be quite a few other children around, not a girl living in isolation with a father whom she dislikes. > > But childhood memories can be very fluid, so the OP should definitely get the book and tell us if it’s the one she remembers! Yeah- it sounds like I did quite manufacture some of those memories when I tried to dig details out of my mind- but yes, this does, in fact, sound like the book… I have tried other books that sounded right, however, and they weren’t it. I will let you all know! (By the way- I let it slide a couple times, but I am a male :)) > [@Lamia](#): > > It doesn’t look like there’s anything closer than Fresno, although I’m not really familiar with California county names so some of these county libraries may be somewhere in your area. Here’s all the holdings I found for CA in WorldCat. This list may not be totally accurate – WorldCat was showing this book as being owned by the public library in the next county over from mine, but I just checked that library’s online catalog and didn’t see it there. > > Butte County Library > California State University, Fresno > Colusa County Free Library > Nevada County Library > Oxnard Public Library > San Jose State University > Shasta Public Library > Sutter County Library > > If you are affiliated with UC Berkeley then I’m sure their library could get a copy for you through Inter-Library Loan. Your local public library may or may not be able to do the same. However, it’s likely a used copy from Amazon would be faster. Yes- I think I will just order the amazon copy. I just wish they had a digital edition, though it would likely cost more. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/24 "2011-11-09T16:04:09Z")
My library has it - let me know and I’ll request a copy. I probably couldn’t send it to you or anything, but I could read it and let you know. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/25 "2011-11-09T19:45:05Z")
Hmmm- I wonder if I can make it up to Minneapolis the next time I am in Des Moines… I can probably read that book in about an hour… It was good- you should read it, and give me some more details… Send me a photo of the page where she nearly drowns, and I will let you know if that is in fact the same one- that is what I remember best… ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/26 "2011-11-09T20:04:31Z")
> [@gurujulp](#): > > Well, I don’t know. > > None of the descriptions are any good, except for the description provided by **Cabot Covian** - but that is so uncannily accurate that I am pretty sure this is it. > > Of course it isn’t available on Kindle, so I can’t just buy it and begin reading, but I will be ordering one of the used copies cheaply- I don’t think I will go for the $158 one, though… Here is the description from the flap of the book (partial quote with link to the rest): > [@](#): > > What is it about the wasteland, that great brooding tract of isolated land that lay beyond the salt marsh on the shores of the great shallow pool where the river seemed to end? What was it that called Betony there, day after day from her refuge at the Orphanage? At first it was the aloneness of the place. But after a while she wasn’t always alone. There were dreams that cam. Dreams of people–Norsemen who had come and lived in that desolate place hundreds of years before. > > It began with a great wooden sailing ship. She saw it there in the pool, though it was too shalow, the way in too silted over, too full of grasses adn reeds for such a ship. She made up stories about it. She escaped into a world of the past with it. Here is the link to the full text of the text inside the front cover. Scroll down half way. [http://www.librarything.com/work/1651420](http://www.librarything.com/work/1651420) ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/27 "2011-11-09T20:10:37Z")
Wow- that could be it, or not. I seem to recall that it was her dad she lived with, and she hated being around him, and I don’t recall any children other than her and I think an older boy who had a crush on her. But the part about the ship being where it wouldn’t fit is perfect… I don’t know. Now I am leaning towards it not being correct, but how many norse dreams can there be in young adult lit? I really just need to read the drowning scene and see. Thanks, however… ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/28 "2011-11-10T03:28:12Z")
> [@gurujulp](#): > > I seem to recall that it was her dad she lived with, and she hated being around him, and I don’t recall any children other than her and I think an older boy who had a crush on her. > > But the part about the ship being where it wouldn’t fit is perfect… > > I don’t know. Now I am leaning towards it not being correct, but how many norse dreams can there be in young adult lit? Well, it is possible that you’re conflating two different books and that the Viking element was one book and the living with dad thing was another. When I was in library school our department library had a big collection of children’s and YA novels for people studying to be youth librarians, and although I wasn’t in that track I re-read a number of books that I’d remembered liking as a kid. In some cases I was surprised to find that I’d totally forgotten the majority of the story, or that I’d misunderstood some important plot point the first time around. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/29 "2011-11-10T16:44:30Z")
**gurujulp** , I did request it from my library - they should have it for me in a couple of days. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/30 "2011-11-10T17:27:28Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Well, it is possible that you’re conflating two different books and that the Viking element was one book and the living with dad thing was another. When I was in library school our department library had a big collection of children’s and YA novels for people studying to be youth librarians, and although I wasn’t in that track I re-read a number of books that I’d remembered liking as a kid. In some cases I was surprised to find that I’d totally forgotten the majority of the story, or that I’d misunderstood some important plot point the first time around. This is true, Lamia- and I really hate seeing proof that my memory is not working correctly all the time. It makes me wonder if everyone should get everything in writing ALL THE TIME. Forget fraud- it is the simple human condition to err. Wait… that sounds familar… and I circled my way around to first principles! 🆒 > [@Snickers](#): > > **gurujulp** , I did request it from my library - they should have it for me in a couple of days. That is great! I am pretty sure fair use would allow the excerpt to be shown of that single page- so if you could pm me or even post a link to it here, if board allows, I would appreciate it greatly! Thanks, Snickers! (are you named after the candy bar, the tough in Hudson Hawk that was named after the candy, or do you just giggle softly and sharply to yourself? Often? With darting eyes? With a blood-wet chin? 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/31 "2011-11-21T03:18:12Z")
Any update? ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/32 "2011-11-21T04:23:25Z")
I live in Butte County! I just put a hold on it, so maybe I can help. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/33 "2011-11-21T11:45:38Z")
Just stumbled onto this interesting thread-- Well?? Enquiring minds want to know! ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/34 "2011-11-21T17:14:43Z")
Well, I was hoping for an excerpt of it, and then realized that I could just order it for less than $5, so I did just place the order at Amazon. I won’t have it for a week or two, though, so go ahead and send me some info, **snickers** or **dangermom** , if either of you get it before me. It was a good book, so don’t NOT read it just because I have a copy on the way. I will post once I have it, and let you all know. I really hope it is as good as I remember. ---
**Author:** ![Cabot\_Covian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@Cabot\_Covian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabot_Covian)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/35 "2011-11-23T23:57:06Z")
Good news **gurujulp**. I think you will indeed find that _On The Wasteland_ is the book you are looking for. I just finished rereading it at the library - unfortunately it is on non-circulating loan, and I could only have it out for an hour, but it refreshed my memory and jibes with much of what you remember. Highlights: - Our main character is a 12 year old orphan, Bettony, also known as Gipsy, a nickname which she hates. Her mom died in childbirth with a boy when Bettony was younger, and she ends up being raised by her stepdad, who’s abusive, a drunk and a wastrel. The two of them (and Bettony’s beloved collie, Sparks) roam the British countryside looking for work and food, until one day they end up in Suffolk, where Bettony’s mom is from. She takes this opportunity to make a break from her stepdad, and runs away. - She’s found by a nice young woman who works at an orphanage, and is taken to the orphanage. The place is run by Mrs. John, a stern but caring woman who reluctantly takes both Bettony and her dog in. The other children think she’s weird though, and call her Gipsy because of her wandering past. - Because she doesn’t get along with the other children, Bettony spends her time playing with Sparks and exploring along the countryside. One day her dog is hit by a car, and she buries him alone alongside the road. Now she’s well and truly alone in the world, and begins to break down. - On her wanderings she meets an old woman, Yetty, who lives in an upside down boat along the beach. Yetty lives with her husband, and tells Bettony tales of Suffolk and the magic in the area. She also warns Bettony to stay away from “The Pool” a foot deep patch water known for mysterious drownings amd hauntings. Of course, Bettony’s curiosity is piqued. - Walking back to the orphanage from Yetty’s house, she runs into a group of boys who seem menacing, but mysteriously back off once they start to approach her. She later runs into one of them, a boy named Orlando, who tells her that they were going to start pranking her until a big scary collie started following her. Bettony believes it’s the ghost of Sparks protecting her, and starts to think maybe the magic is real after all. She and Orlando start to become friends, and perhaps more. - She finally discovers the Pool she was warned about, and begins to see the boat. I think it’s triggered by standing under a magic birch tree. The visions of the Viking boat and village become more and more real, until one day she’s actually in the village while it’s under attack. She’s hurt in the Viking village, and then wakes up back in the real world with a bruise on her arm. - She returns to the magic tree at the Pool more and more, and in time realizes that in the Viking world she’s Estrith, the village princess. In the dream world she has everything she doesn’t have in real life - a family, a protective father, a real home, roots, - and most significantly, a brother, Thorkhill, whom she adores. She realizes that this is the replacement for the brother she loved and lost when her mom died in childbirth. At some point in time she finds (and eventually loses) a piece of wood from the Viking world which she was able to bring into the “real” world - this is her proof that the dream world is also real. - However, her life in the real world starts to get better. She and Orlando become closer, she’s doing better in school, she befriends a new kid at the orphanage and she has replacement grandparents in Yetty and her husband. - Then it all goes to pot. Her friend at the orphanage grows deathly ill and is moved to a hospital (once again, she loses a brother), and Yetty’s house burns down one night mysteriously. It turns out Orlando and his friends may have accidentally left a beach fire going one night, and the embers set the house ablaze. Also, Yetty’s husband dies from pnuemonia shortly afterwards. The dream world’s looking better and better. - In the real world, Orlando gets Bettony a part-time job working for a nearby family, and it turns out the Pool is on their property. The family has a son, Lionel, about her age who has a crush on her. He knows about the area’s Viking history, and thinks he too may have seen the magic boat. - In the dream world, she learns that her brother (and soon, herself) are engaged to royal members of a foreign household, and are destined to be separated forever. Not bearing to lose another brother, she follows his boat in despair. - Suddenly Bettony wakes up in the real world, wet and panting in Orlando’s arms (settle down perverts) - he saved her from drowning after she had thrown herself into the Pool in a trance. This is a wakeup call to her that she doesn’t want to die, and that perhaps the real world isn’t so bad after all. - She tells Lionel everything - she hadn’t told a soul about her dream world before, but she feels like she can trust him implicitly. He believes her, and says that he can organize an archealogical dig through his school to see if they turn up any evidence of Viking artifacts at the Pool. - Lionel and his classmates don’t find anything, but Bettony’s ok with that. She knows the magic is real, and knows that if she ever needs them again, her Viking family will be there. She has a new family though (Yetty, Orlando, Lionel), and that’s all she was ever looking for. It’s certainly a delightful read, but the Viking bits were less prominent than I recalled: it really was more about her straddling the boundaries between childhood and adolescence (she turns 13 over the course of the book, and struggles with burgeoning romantic feelings). I think it also confirms some of the things you remember, like living with a dad she disliked and an old woman she befriended. Happy Thanksgiving all! ---
**Author:** ![Cabot\_Covian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@Cabot\_Covian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabot_Covian)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/36 "2011-11-24T00:04:36Z")
Whoopsies! ---
**Author:** ![Cabot\_Covian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@Cabot\_Covian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabot_Covian)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/37 "2011-11-24T00:23:52Z")
Last post, promise. I see that you asked for a photo of the page where she almost drowns, but cameras are frowned upon here and my cell phone is crap. Anywhoo, there is definitely an illustration of Orlando pulling an unconcious Bettony out of the water during that scene, taking up approximately half a page. He’s kind of dragging her from under her underarms and out of the Pool. She’s white, with a pixie-ish blond/brown bob, and he’s black with short hair and a greysish hoodie. The illustration is in black and white, and sort of pencil-y. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/38 "2011-11-24T00:27:49Z")
Wow, I was beaten to the punch. 🙂 But, I am going to pick the book up this afternoon and I can check it out, so **gurujulp** if you need anything looked up, just ask. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/39 "2011-11-24T00:34:20Z")
**Cabot Covian** - WOW! Thanks for that review, and wow, that old lady in the boat, and her being called gypsy, the swimming after the boat and nearly drowning, yes! That is definitely it! **dangermom** - I should have it next week, so likely I am covered, but thanks! I hope you like it as much as I did the first time- let me know what you think! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897/40 "2011-11-24T01:05:45Z")
Hurray! For some reason I always get very invested in these what-was-that-story quests, probably because I know how frustrating it is not to be able to recall a long-lost book, and it’s always great to see them end happily. (And **gurujulp** , don’t you **dare** come back here and say “Yeah, that was the book I was thinking of, but you know, it’s basically crap and I can’t imagine why I’ve wasted ten years trying to remember it.” 😉 Happy reading!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-figuring-out-this-book-at-least-2-decades-old/601897.md?page=3)