# Need Help Translating Motto Into Latin **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 28, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230 "2009-06-28T01:31:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/1 "2009-06-28T01:31:54Z")
In the spirit of being utterly unbearable, I have decided that all my posts need to end with a Latin tag. The one I have chosen is the PM’s motto from the glorious “Yes, Minister”: In defeat, malice; in victory, revenge. That would look great in Latin: is anyone able to take a crack at it? ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/2 "2009-06-28T01:45:24Z")
In evinco, livor; in victoria, ultionis. From [here](http://www.stars21.com/translator/english_to_latin.html) and [here](http://www.translation-guide.com/free_online_translators.php?from=Latin&to=English). ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/3 "2009-06-28T07:38:22Z")
Ever see the escutcheon of the Sons of the Desert? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bathsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@bathsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bathsheba)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/4 "2009-06-28T21:48:37Z")
From a Yes Minister fan and Latin dude: \*DETRIMENTO•MALIGNITAS•VICTORIA•ULTIO This is how it would appear on a Roman inscription with the usual • between the words. Romans would understand the O on the end of DETRIMENTO and the A on the end of VICTORIA to be equivalent to putting in in front of the words. (The A in this case is pronounced as a long vowel. A short A would make the the in meaning disappear.) Weird though it may seem, the Romans would use the word endings to judge DETRIMENTO and VICTORIA to be the same grammatical part of speech (the ablative case) and MALIGNITAS and ULTIO likewise (but in the nominative case). If you use a short A on VICTORIA in speaking, then that too would change from the ablative case to the nominative and alter the meaning to In defeat malice victory revenge, which does not make sense. \* I have a severe case of hating all I work with so I’ll be putting DETRIMENTO•MALIGNITAS•VICTORIA•ULTIO on my whiteboard today. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/5 "2009-06-29T08:13:36Z")
Sign my posts with it? That’s so awesome I want it tattooed on my bicep! Fantastic, many thanks. DETRIMENTO MALIGNITAS; VICTORIA ULTIO ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/6 "2009-06-29T08:23:28Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > Sign my posts with it? That’s so awesome I want it tattooed on my bicep! Fantastic, many thanks. > > DETRIMENTO MALIGNITAS; VICTORIA ULTIO You’re not actually going to put that after every post are you? “Regards,” is bad enough… But if you are going to, I think you should keep the circled. Spaces and semicolon just looks stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/7 "2009-06-29T09:16:33Z")
> [@Mojo\_Pin](#): > > You’re not actually going to put that after every post are you? “Regards,” is bad enough… > But if you are going to, I think you should keep the circled. Spaces and semicolon just looks stupid. No, I was being facetious in the OP. I certainly wouldn’t want to clothe myself in borrowed pretension. Ka kite ano, SJ ---
**Author:** ![bathsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@bathsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bathsheba)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/8 "2009-06-29T09:42:13Z")
Now I want it tattooed. Awrrrrrrrrsome. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/9 "2009-06-29T14:05:28Z")
> [@bathsheba](#): > > From a Yes Minister fan and Latin dude: > > \*DETRIMENTO•MALIGNITAS•VICTORIA•ULTIO > > This is how it would appear on a Roman inscription with the usual • between the words. > > Romans would understand the O on the end of DETRIMENTO and the A on the end of VICTORIA to be equivalent to putting in in front of the words. (The A in this case is pronounced as a long vowel. A short A would make the the in meaning disappear.) > > Weird though it may seem, the Romans would use the word endings to judge DETRIMENTO and VICTORIA to be the same grammatical part of speech (the ablative case) and MALIGNITAS and ULTIO likewise (but in the nominative case). If you use a short A on VICTORIA in speaking, then that too would change from the ablative case to the nominative and alter the meaning to In defeat malice victory revenge, which does not make sense. (..) \* Hm, in principle, I agree. But _detrimentum_ means “damage” (_detrimentum incendii_,e.g., means “fire damage”) or “loss” but not exactly “defeat”, which is _clades_ or _cladis_. _Offensio_ might fit as well, because it means “personal affront” or “insult” (an _offensio iniusta_ is the justification for an act of self-defense). _Malignitas_ fits, because it’s close to “grudge” in meaning, but maybe _malitia_ (which is closer to “malice”) would have been the better choice (_Ius summum saepe summa est malitia_). ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/10 "2009-06-29T14:40:14Z")
> [@bathsheba](#): > > From a Yes Minister fan and Latin dude: > > DETRIMENTO•MALIGNITAS•VICTORIA•ULTIO > > This is how it would appear on a Roman inscription with the usual • between the words. One small nitpick: in an inscription, the last word would be “VLTIO”. To the Romans, “U” and “V” were the same letter, and as a capital letter it was written “V”. ---
**Author:** ![bathsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@bathsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bathsheba)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/11 "2009-06-29T20:51:06Z")
Latin is a dead language, As dead as dead can be. First it killed the Romans, And now it’s killing me. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/12 "2009-06-30T06:53:32Z")
Intelligo. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/13 "2009-06-30T09:47:07Z")
Technically speaking, _detrimento_ and _victoria_, or _clades_ and _victoria_ should be introduced by an _in_, so: _in clade_ (ablative) and _in victoria_ are correct – but less elegant than a sequence of nouns. And it’s perfectly alright to choose the more straightforward alternative for an inscription. Aside: I guess, you know that the motto is a corruption of one of Churchill’s sayings: > [@](#): > > In War: Resolution. In Defeat: Defiance. In Victory: Magnanimity. In Peace: Goodwill. Or, in Latin: > [@](#): > > IN BELLO CONSILIVM - IN CLADE CONTVMACIA - IN VICTORIA CLEMENTIA - IN PACE BENEVOLENTIA ---
**Author:** ![Bisected8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a4c791/32.png) [@Bisected8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bisected8)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/14 "2009-06-30T11:53:20Z")
Here’s a nice little list if you ever want to sound educated; [http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A218882](http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A218882) ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/15 "2009-07-01T23:37:55Z")
> [@Bisected8](#): > > Here’s a nice little list if you ever want to sound educated; > > [http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A218882](http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A218882) Utinam barbari spatioum proprium tuum invadant! That was my personal cache, damnit! ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-translating-motto-into-latin/501230/16 "2009-07-02T05:20:23Z")
_Originally posted by Wintertime:_ IN BELLO CONSILIVM - IN CLADE CONTVMACIA - IN VICTORIA CLEMENTIA - IN PACE BENEVOLENTIA Remiinds me of a spurious (from _Mad)_ quote about William F. Buckley: “I may be contumacious, but I’m never revocatory!”