# Need help with immigration statistics **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 30, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292 "2009-08-30T22:31:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/1 "2009-08-30T22:31:17Z")
I need some help on statstics pertaining to illegal immigrants. 1. Approximately how many illegal immigrants are in the country right now that are working? 2. How many legal immigrants are there waiting in line to come in with all of the proper paperwork, etc. 3. If the illegal immigrants were to be deported, How many out-of-work Americans would there be to fill the empty slots due to deportation? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/2 "2009-08-30T22:46:08Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > I need some help on statstics pertaining to illegal immigrants. > > 1. Approximately how many illegal immigrants are in the country right now that are working? > > 2. How many legal immigrants are there waiting in line to come in with all of the proper paperwork, etc. > > 3. If the illegal immigrants were to be deported, How many out-of-work Americans would there be to fill the empty slots due to deportation? Here’s one good source of information: [http://www.fairus.org](http://www.fairus.org) Here’s another: [http://www.cis.org](http://www.cis.org/) ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/3 "2009-08-31T01:25:43Z")
You might also want to check out the nonpartisan [Pew Hispanic Trust.](http://pewhispanic.org/) Also, my post would be incomplete without stating that FAIR, listed above, has a reputation for being quite anti-immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/4 "2009-08-31T02:24:50Z")
[http://maldef.org/truthinimmigration/](http://maldef.org/truthinimmigration/) is another one. Pew is much better for statistics though. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/5 "2009-08-31T07:41:16Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > You might also want to check out the nonpartisan [Pew Hispanic Trust.](http://pewhispanic.org/) > > Also, my post would be incomplete without stating that FAIR, listed above, has a reputation for being quite anti-immigrant. Correction: anti-illegal immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/6 "2009-08-31T08:05:21Z")
Excuse my ignorance, but . . . > [@jakesteele](#): > > 1. How many legal immigrants are there waiting in line to come in with all of the proper paperwork, etc. Why would there be _anyone_ wating in line? If they have the proper paperwork, why can’t they come now? Is there a rule which says, OK, here’s your green card, but you can’t come in until we find an illegal immigrant and deport them to make room for you? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/7 "2009-08-31T12:25:28Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Excuse my ignorance, but . . . > Why would there be _anyone_ wating in line? If they have the proper paperwork, why can’t they come now? Is there a rule which says, OK, here’s your green card, but you can’t come in until we find an illegal immigrant and deport them to make room for you? Even if you do **everything right** , the process almost always takes **years** – sometimes many years. There are many reasons for this, and I suppose “not leting the immigrant population (legal plus illegal) rise too quickly” could be considered one of them, but, IMHO, the main reason seems to come down to “they take years to process you because they can”. That is, unlike, say, if you are arrested for something (and therefore, constitutionally, you have a right to a speedy due process), for immigrants to the U.S., the authorities don’t feel they owe you a damn thing. They think you should feel immensely lucky just for the privelege of, yes, “getting in line”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/8 "2009-08-31T14:45:12Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Here’s one good source of information: [http://www.fairus.org](http://www.fairus.org) > > Here’s another: [http://www.cis.org](http://www.cis.org/) Well, one out of two isn’t bad. CIS is nonpartisan and does not have an agenda. FAIR is very definitely partisan and has a very clear agenda. > [@](#): > > Why would there be anyone wating in line? If they have the proper paperwork, why can’t they come now? Is there a rule which says, OK, here’s your green card, but you can’t come in until we find an illegal immigrant and deport them to make room for you? Because legal immigration is restricted by country-of-origin quotas and socioeconomic quotas. Unless you have a specific high-demand postgraduate qualification (engineering, accounting, medicine, etc.) your name goes into a very long list of unskilled and semi-skilled workers or a somewhat shorter list of skilled workers/college graduates. The first group gets preferential treatment both for non-immigrant work visas (H1-B) or immigrant visas/permanent residency, and can get in relatively quickly. The latter two groups do not, so approval may take years. If you’re from a country which already sends a lot of immigrants- such as Mexico- the process can take lots of years, since immigration from your country is going to be limited in that regard too. IIRC, a significant majority Mexican applicants never win the visa lottery. **Eva Luna** deals with this stuff all day every day so hopefully she’ll be along soon. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/9 "2009-08-31T15:02:53Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Excuse my ignorance, but . . . > Why would there be _anyone_ wating in line? If they have the proper paperwork, why can’t they come now? Is there a rule which says, OK, here’s your green card, but you can’t come in until we find an illegal immigrant and deport them to make room for you? I’ve been waiting in line two times. The first time, I’d been offered a job in the US, and it took nearly a year for my employment visa to be approved. That includes time that my employer’s lawyers put the paperwork together, and time that it took for the US immigration people to approve it. The second time, I won the Diversity Lottery (the “Green Card Lottery”, and it took about half a year to go through the adjustment-of-status process waiting for paperwork to go through the immigration people. During that “adjustment of status”, there was no problem about my continuing to live and work inside the U.S., but I couldn’t leave the U.S. without “Advance Parole” – and I needed that because during the six months I needed to visit Australia and Canada for work purposes. I’m sure that Eva Luna will tell you that my case is relatively simple, and was processed relatively quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/10 "2009-08-31T15:17:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, one out of two isn’t bad. > > CIS is nonpartisan and does not have an agenda. FAIR is very definitely partisan and has a very clear agenda. > > Because legal immigration is restricted by country-of-origin quotas and socioeconomic quotas. Unless you have a specific high-demand postgraduate qualification (engineering, accounting, medicine, etc.) your name goes into a very long list of unskilled and semi-skilled workers or a somewhat shorter list of skilled workers/college graduates. > > The first group gets preferential treatment both for non-immigrant work visas (H1-B) or immigrant visas/permanent residency, and can get in relatively quickly. The latter two groups do not, so approval may take years. > > If you’re from a country which already sends a lot of immigrants- such as Mexico- the process can take lots of years, since immigration from your country is going to be limited in that regard too. IIRC, a significant majority Mexican applicants never win the visa lottery. > > **Eva Luna** deals with this stuff all day every day so hopefully she’ll be along soon. And also limited by the applicant’s relationship with the US citizen or resident alien. IOW, spouses of citizens have first priority. Siblings have very low priority, and there are a limited number of visas available each year. Also, IIRC, Mexico does not qualify for the visa lottery, which is for countries under-represented in visa applications. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/11 "2009-08-31T15:20:46Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > Also, IIRC, Mexico does not qualify for the visa lottery, which is for countries under-represented in visa applications. That’s true – though the official name is the Diversity Lottery, and it’s for green cards (permanent residence) rather than for visas (I’m not a US citizen, but I last entered the US on a visa more than 7 years ago). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/12 "2009-08-31T15:21:02Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > Also, IIRC, Mexico does not qualify for the visa lottery, which is for countries under-represented in visa applications. No- there’s a separate lottery specifically for Mexican applicants, AIUI. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/13 "2009-08-31T15:28:13Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I’ve been waiting in line two times. > > The first time, I’d been offered a job in the US, and it took nearly a year for my employment visa to be approved. That includes time that my employer’s lawyers put the paperwork together, and time that it took for the US immigration people to approve it. > > The second time, I won the Diversity Lottery (the “Green Card Lottery”, and it took about half a year to go through the adjustment-of-status process waiting for paperwork to go through the immigration people. During that “adjustment of status”, there was no problem about my continuing to live and work inside the U.S., but I couldn’t leave the U.S. without “Advance Parole” – and I needed that because during the six months I needed to visit Australia and Canada for work purposes. > > I’m sure that Eva Luna will tell you that my case is relatively simple, and was processed relatively quickly. Also, as you describe it this was simply (hah!) how long the bureaucracy took to process all the paperwork, not an intentional slowdown due to quotas. Many people will get caught up in quotas that in effect put their applications on hold for years, if not making application impossible. When I was applying for a green card through employment exactly this happened to me - my case was put on hold for a few years due to quotas. It wasn’t clear when this would end, either. When I married a US citizen I could apply through that, with no quotas. That application took a relatively speedy four months. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/14 "2009-08-31T16:12:17Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > That’s true – though the official name is the Diversity Lottery, and it’s for green cards (permanent residence) rather than for visas (I’m not a US citizen, but I last entered the US on a visa more than 7 years ago). Kinda sorta. What you “win” is the particular type of visa first to be allowed entry into the country, and then you apply for a green card. It’s not guaranteed you’ll get the green card, as you still have to clear all the requirements (ie - background checks, health requirements. etc). ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/15 "2009-08-31T16:19:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No- there’s a separate lottery specifically for Mexican applicants, AIUI. Huh. I’ve never heard of this, although it’s been several years since I tracked immigration laws/procedures closely. Are you sure that’s not a guest worker program? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/16 "2009-08-31T16:26:06Z")
Hmmm. Possibly. I’m doing this from memory, so it wouldn’t surprise me if I’m off on the details. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/17 "2009-08-31T16:26:20Z")
Hi all, As much as I’d love to spend more time hanging out in this thread, I have other fish to fry; in addition to my full-time job, I am getting married on Saturday. So you might say I’m a tad busy. But just to clear up misconceptions about the feasibility of waiting one’s turn to immigrate legally, I will once again post the current [State Department Visa Bulletin,](http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_4558.html) which lists the quotas for various immigration cateogries and the backlogs for each, which depend not only on category, but on country of birth. So, for example, if you are a brother or sister of an adult US citizen, and you were born in the Philippines, and your US citizen sibling filed an immigrant petition in October 1986, you will be eligible for an immigrant visa this coming month. In the employment-based categories, if you are immigrating based on an employer’s petition to fill a job that requires a bachelor’s degree at minimum, they aren’t even quoting a processing time, because the entire fiscal year quota has been used up. If you don’t have an employer to petition for you, or a close relative (spouse, parent, or child, or you’re REALLY patient, a sibling) who is a US citizen or permanent resident, and you aren’t lucky enough to snag one of the 50,000 annual Diversity Lottery slots, you essentially have no change to immigrate legally. So please, let’s not pretend that it’s simply a matter of waiting in line. And even if you do have the opportunity to wait in line, the wait can literally be DECADES. I’ve seen simple cases based on marriage to a U.S. citizen take 2 years. Even longer, now that I think about it; a childhood friend of mine married a Ph.D. candidate from Croatia, who was here legally, and it took 3.5 years, a condo, and a kid for this green card to be approved. And there are plenty of other tales of woe just on this message board. Anyway, gotta run - the masses are huddling. Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/18 "2009-08-31T16:53:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, one out of two isn’t bad. > > CIS is nonpartisan and does not have an agenda. FAIR is very definitely partisan and has a very clear agenda. So, in the interest of ensuring bias-free information you point to FAIR, but you say nothing about MALDEF?!?!?! Guess your bias about their extreme bias reveals yours. And, yes, for the record, FAIR has an agenda: [here it is:](http://www.fairus.org/site/PageNavigator/about/) > [@](#): > > The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a national, nonprofit, public-interest, membership organization of concerned citizens who share a common belief that our nation’s immigration policies must be reformed to serve the national interest. > > FAIR seeks to improve border security, to stop illegal immigration, and to promote immigration levels consistent with the national interest—more traditional rates of about 300,000 a year… > [@](#): > > FAIR advocates: > • that our immigration laws must be fairly and effectively enforced; > > • that the means exist to end illegal immigration by humane measures that are consistent with our democratic ideals and existing laws; > > • that immigration should not be permitted to undermine opportunities for America’s poor and vulnerable citizens to improve their working conditions and wages; > > • there should be no favoritism toward or discrimination against any person on the basis of race, color, or creed; that all admissions of immigrants come within a single, stable ceiling which is periodically reviewed on the basis of reasoned, explicit population goals for the United States; > > • that three criteria should guide selection of immigrants: (1) our fair share of refugees, with ultimate resettlement a key part of the program (2) our national manpower policy, and (3) concerns for reunification of nuclear families; > > • that the United States should not contribute to a brain drain that entices away the skilled and talented who are desperately needed in their homelands; we should meet our need for skilled professionals by training and retraining our own; > > • that the United States should make greater efforts to encourage population stabilization, economic development, and alleviation of poverty worldwide and especially in countries of great migration; > > • that the era of mass international migration to the United States as a solution to international problems must come to an end; problems of poverty and overpopulation must be vigorously confronted where people live, rather than postponing their solution by either the export or the importation of masses of people; > > • that determining its own immigration and population policy is the sovereign right and responsibility of every nation. You seem to bristle at the mention of FAIR. Which of these positions do you find so troubling? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/19 "2009-08-31T16:54:28Z")
**Eva** , Just wanted to say CONGRATULATIONS! Hope your wedding comes off perfectly. Enjoy!!! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292/20 "2009-08-31T17:19:42Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, in the interest of ensuring bias-free information you point to FAIR, but you say nothing about MALDEF?!?!?! I didn’t see the link to MALDEF. I would certainly have noted that it is not an objective source also if I had. > [@](#): > > You seem to bristle at the mention of FAIR. Which of these positions do you find so troubling? If pointing out that FAIR is partisan and has an agenda is bristling, then color me bristly. However, I simply pointed out that one of your suggested sources is (theoretically) academic in nature and one is not. CIS isn’t wholly objective either, but that’s another story- their numbers, at least, are accurate and their methodology is sound. I don’t find any of FAIR’s positions particularly “troubling”. I don’t necessarily agree with them, but that’s another thread. The point is that the OP is looking for objectivity and FAIR does not offer- or claim to offer- what he’s looking for. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-help-with-immigration-statistics/508292.md?page=2)