# Need Helvetica font- options? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 26, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317 "2012-06-26T02:11:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/21 "2012-06-26T18:03:39Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > From that example, I think the opposite. The differences are glaring. > > Maybe it’s a matter of what you look for. A non-typographer may be blind to what a typographer sees instantly. I’d love to meet a three year old typographer. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/22 "2012-06-26T18:06:15Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > Generally I think people make too much fuss over the details of fonts, but your example does not support your contention. The OP specifically mentions needing the correct “R” and the differences between that letter in Arial, Helvetica and Vera are dramatic. > > Still, very few people could glance at a page of 11 pt. Arial and 11 pt. Helvetica and tell the difference without seeking out individual characters. (Unlike the way many people could distinguish Gill from Helvetica, or Garamond from Times almost instantly.) My contention had nothing to do with comparing Helvetica and Arial in general, but rather the claim that a **three year old could tell the difference**. Even looking at the fonts side by side and blown up (which is when their differences will be **most** glaring) I think the differences are notable (because it’s an image **designed to show the differences** ) but not “your eyes need checked be cause a three year old could see the difference” notable. The contention wasn’t that a three year old could easily tell the difference when they were in large font and side by side, either, it was just a more general contention that a three year old could easily differentiate between these fonts. I actually suspect the average person if you put up a series of street signs, some in Arial, some in Helvetica, some in Microsoft Sans Serif, would not have great accuracy in identifying the fonts overall. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/23 "2012-06-26T18:08:30Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Why can’t you just download Helvetica? Why does it matter that your computer doesn’t have it pre-installed? Just in case you’re unaware, there are lots of fonts that you can easily find for free. Some fonts are only available as a “legal download” if you pay for the font file (as mentioned upthread, fonts themselves cannot actually be copyrighted but they can be patented…but Helvetica was created by a typographer in the 1950s), and Helvetica is probably the best known font where the company that owns it requires you to pay for it if you want the file. This is because it’s a font that Microsoft doesn’t include by default in Windows but has historically been used on Apple OS products. ---
**Author:** ![Amblydoper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@Amblydoper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amblydoper)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/24 "2012-06-26T19:07:20Z")
I do believe is a site that sells you individual lines of text in a font without requiring you to buy the font. This works great if you just need a type face for one project. I am having trouble finding it. ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/25 "2012-06-26T19:52:20Z")
I found a site where there was a free download for Helvetica and I actually downloaded it for my MS 2007 free trial a year or so ago (and found the site using a typical Google Search), but can’t seem to find it now. Just saying if you’re willing to “pirate” it, that it’s out there; these sites may go on and off though…if you find it, post it? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/26 "2012-06-26T20:04:59Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > **Really**? Because I call BS on that, from this image here I think it’s very difficult to tell the difference: [link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Helvarial.svg). I’m not a typographer by any stretch, in fact my typical usage of the font menu varies between Times New Roman and Arial. But I can see the line in the lower-right of the R is much different. Helvetica has a rounded turn followed by vertical or mostly vertical the rest of the way town. Arial is diagonal on that same section. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/27 "2012-06-26T23:17:50Z")
I don’t recall where I got my copy of Helvetica. I assume it installed with some other software I bought, like Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro, and I’ve kept it ever since. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/28 "2012-06-27T04:18:37Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > **Really**? Because I call BS on that, from this image here I think it’s very difficult to tell the difference: [link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Helvarial.svg). The differences are obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/29 "2012-06-27T12:47:25Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > The differences are obvious. They’re obvious if you’re looking for them. There’s a big difference between distinguishing between say, Sylvester Stallone and a stunt double when you know you’re about to see a scene with a stunt double in it versus just watching the movie and not specifically looking for the comparison. Arial/Helvetica aren’t so dramatically different that a three year old would tell the difference, which is what you claimed. I’ve never said there aren’t clear differences in the font, there obviously are or they wouldn’t be distinct type sets. But I contend that even when side by side **they are similar enough** that the claim that someone needs to get their eyes checked if they can’t tell the difference between them in a non-side-by-side comparison is ludicrous. The OP isn’t talking about using Arial next to Helvetica, he was talking about something to put up that would be standalone and that would look like Helvetica. That’s a much different standard, and I think you’re exaggerating when you say in such a scenario a “three year old” could tell the difference. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/30 "2012-06-27T14:26:50Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > They’re obvious if you’re looking for them. There’s a big difference between distinguishing between say, Sylvester Stallone and a stunt double when you know you’re about to see a scene with a stunt double in it versus just watching the movie and not specifically looking for the comparison. > > Arial/Helvetica aren’t so dramatically different that a three year old would tell the difference, which is what you claimed. I’ve never said there aren’t clear differences in the font, there obviously are or they wouldn’t be distinct type sets. > > But I contend that even when side by side **they are similar enough** that the claim that someone needs to get their eyes checked if they can’t tell the difference between them in a non-side-by-side comparison is ludicrous. The OP isn’t talking about using Arial next to Helvetica, he was talking about something to put up that would be standalone and that would look like Helvetica. That’s a much different standard, and I think you’re exaggerating when you say in such a scenario a “three year old” could tell the difference. My original comment was a response to **njtt** ’s statement, that: _“. . . the uppercase R does not look very different from the Arial one to me. If they are different, it is subtle.”_ This implies that he is comparing the Helvetica “R” to the Ariel “R.” And yes, the difference is obvious. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/31 "2012-06-27T17:39:29Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > OK, after looking at that I guess the font that is labeled Helvetica in my word processor’s font list is not really Helvetica after all. It just gives me Arial. I don’t know why it lists itself as Helvetica as well as Arial. It’s probably there for compatibility, just in case you get a document designed for a Mac. Also, I read that MS Sans Serif was more similar, but I didn’t have a copy of Helvetica to check, and nearly every sans serif font claims to be a Helvetica clone. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/32 "2012-06-27T17:46:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s probably there for compatibility, just in case you get a document designed for a Mac. > > Also, I read that MS Sans Serif was more similar, but I didn’t have a copy of Helvetica to check, and nearly every sans serif font claims to be a Helvetica clone. MS Sans Serif has characteristics of both Helvetica and Arial. For example, it has a Helvetica-style “G” and an Ariel-style “R.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/33 "2012-07-06T00:34:14Z")
Well, I found a font that has the Helvetica style R in it, at least. It’s a Helvetica clone designed to be metrically equivalent, but has a few differences. It’s known as [Nimbus Sans L](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimbus_Sans_L#Nimbus_Sans_L) and was designed to replace Helvetica in the free PDF creator Ghostscript. You can download the Ghostscript fonts from [the SourceForge page](http://sourceforge.net/projects/gs-fonts/). You’ll need something that can open tar.gz files, if you don’t have one already. I recommend [7-Zip](http://www.7-zip.org/). ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/34 "2012-07-06T00:46:08Z")
Helvetica is the jump off. I’ve always admired the capital Helvetica ‘R’. I like to think of that tail like a sexy leg with a tiny fuck-me pump on. Arial just aint giving it up like that, baby. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317/35 "2012-07-06T12:48:28Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > I found a site where there was a free download for Helvetica and I actually downloaded it for my MS 2007 free trial a year or so ago (and found the site using a typical Google Search), but can’t seem to find it now. Just saying if you’re willing to “pirate” it, that it’s out there; these sites may go on and off though…if you find it, post it? No, that’s not a good idea, actually…because it’s against the rules here. Please don’t encourage posters to post links from piracy sites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-helvetica-font-options/626317.md?page=1)