# Need opinions (genuine critique) on a painting **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601 "2008-04-23T21:28:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/101 "2008-04-28T12:37:15Z")
[QUOTE=ZebraShaSha] If you don’t mind, I’m going to do my best to be a complete dick. What everyone else said is true, you have unbelievable talent, not just technically, but also with composition and such which is nothing you can learn. With that being said, if we want to get into surrealism, the hair is fine. It’s realistic enough to be believable, but if you make it too realistic there’s no way to get all the shit in the hair to look believable together. It looks a lot like Magritte’s surrealistic approach. Also, I’m not sure how surrealistic this is, in the classic sense. A true surrealistic piece would have some form of piercing flesh (only mostly joking). The main problem with the composition is the balance - both in luminance, hue, and graphic weight. Oh, here I’m saying in a classic sense, so if you do things different on purpose, then disregard. Also, I’m painting a square right now. Squares are a bitch to work with, so I sympathize. And first, I would rotate it, like [thus.](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/ZebraShaSha/example1.jpg) But that’s a personal thing, I’ll assume you’ll stick with how you have it from here on out. So, luminence. Basically, the upper right hand corner needs lightened, along with a smidgen of the lower left. That way, you have the gradient moving into one corner, which causes the eye to follow from your hand to your eyes, which are the two things with the most graphic weight. If you keep that corner darker, it makes everything go bonkers. Kinda like [this.](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/ZebraShaSha/example2.jpg) All right, hue. Basically, you’re missing yellow, or more particularly, orange. You have a nice tan through the back, but it’s not yellow enough. I’m not sure if that’s raw linen or what, but it really needs a vibrant orange to set off everything. You know, complements and all that. See [here.](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/ZebraShaSha/example3.jpg) Obviously, you’ll have to go back through and mess with the reflected shadows to make it work, but that isn’t so bad. Oh, and you’ll need to put a smidgen of orange between your neck and shoulder and hair, so that way you’ll have MASS OF ORANGE and then a tiny little area of orange, which will really answer each other. I’d also change all the reds to red red orange. And speaking of answering, you see those two streaks of paint on the hair between your eyes and the hand in the lower right hand corner? I’d form them more into the shape of the hand, you really need a shape to answer that really bold one formed by the fingers. Oh, and if you make the nose stand out just a tad more, that would be amazing. That way it would be the paintbrush in the top left corner pointing to the nose which points to the V in the hair which answers The Hand which abruptly stops the motion with the strong black outline. This is a lot harder online than in person. I’ll stop there unless I think of anything else. Please ask for clarifications, because I know I muddled a lot of stuff above. (Also, random comment: A lot of artists now seem to think they can pick up a brush and start making pretty colors, completely ignoring the human figure and/or realism. It’s really, really nice to see not only someone painting realistically, but painting it so damn well. It’s something that I can’t quite get right and it’s a really under-appreciated skill. Kudos.) [/QUOTE] This is a very good critique…I especially agree with the suggestion to bring more orange/yellow into it. I would even go as far as adding some bolder “highlights” to the hair. Maybe that’s what your teacher was getting at?? I think I’d work the paint brush hand a bit more, my thought being that your art is so obviously a huge part of who you are. It needs a bit more emphasis. Your technical skills are great! If you’re working from a photograph, I’d like to see it. I had a fellow student who did a gigantor painting of her mother, and it was interesting to see where the inspiration came from. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/102 "2008-04-28T12:57:04Z")
You have an amazing talent! ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/103 "2008-04-28T13:05:46Z")
Are you done? I saw Day 16. Well done, **Opal**! I love, love, love it! I wish you would re-name it ‘Becoming Art’, but that’s just simple me. You really should be proud of yourself. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/104 "2008-04-28T19:47:21Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I think I’d work the paint brush hand a bit mor. [/QUOTE] Which one? ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/105 "2008-04-28T21:18:40Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] This is due on Monday so I am on the home stretch. Tonight I worked on the razor blades and the cut hair, mostly, as well as lightening up the upper right corner. I darkened the ear. I also lightened part of the hand print, but that makes it too much of a “baby blue” for now. Tomorrow night I will do a little more work in the hair and do a cobalt blue wash over the lightened part of the handprint, which should maintain much of the lightness, but return the depth of color. [New Photo](http://gallery.opalcat.com/gallery/being_art/being_art_day15?full=1) [/QUOTE] Lookin’ good OC. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/106 "2008-04-28T21:24:29Z")
I think your painting is shibby, **Opal**. Damn Brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/107 "2008-04-28T23:54:00Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] Which one? [/QUOTE] I’m sorry…the thin one. The new photo looks like you worked it more. I looked back and forth and now I can’t tell if you put a little more detail in it or not. Lighting…lack of sleep…I dunno. I just know I like the painting a lot. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/108 "2008-04-28T23:55:54Z")
The thin one… not sure which one is the thin one. There are three hands, two of which have paint brushes. One is on the right, one is on the left…? (To address a point: I don’t want warm tones/oranges in the painting because mood-wise they clash with what I’m going for.) ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/109 "2008-04-28T23:58:10Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] The thin one… not sure which one is the thin one. There are three hands, two of which have paint brushes. One is on the right, one is on the left…? (To address a point: I don’t want warm tones/oranges in the painting because mood-wise they clash with what I’m going for.) [/QUOTE] The one on the left. The one painting near your eye. ---
**Author:** ![shamrock227](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@shamrock227](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shamrock227)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/110 "2008-04-30T04:52:23Z")
Don’t leave us in suspense what did your teacher say? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/111 "2008-04-30T04:59:38Z")
I didn’t read the thread because I am not qualified to critique a painter on your level or analyze others’ critiques, but I just wanted to say you have an amazing talent. The two paintings you linked to in your OP are flawless in my “Joe Sixpack” eyes. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/112 "2008-04-30T05:23:07Z")
Well [this is the version](http://gallery.opalcat.com/gallery/being_art/being_art_day16?full=1) I took in for the final review (along with all the other things that I had to bring in–all my work from this semester, basically. ([this is basically it, except for the picture of Dominic with the candle which I didn’t bring in](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9740140&postcount=15) He didn’t like most of it. The horse was ‘not alive enough’ (gosh ya think? it’s supposed to be ethereal) and the rest of them were too dark and dull. He thought I didn’t do a good enough job on the hair and that it looks muddy. He had some other suggesteions that totally were contrary to what I wanted the painting to represent (he’s notorious for that when he’s not being so vague that you can’t even tell what he wants.) He asked me what my major was and seemed surprised that it was art (not something like art education–which is mostly people who want to teach art to gradeschool kids) which I found slightly offesive. The implication was that my work wasn’t good enough for that. I take what he says with a grain of salt, however. Here are examples of the kind of things he does: [whatever this is](http://www.csuohio.edu/art/f/fexamples/nevadomi_ex3.jpg)[elephant](http://pics.livejournal.com/opalcat/pic/000abzkf) [cowboys](http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/galleryimages/thumbnail1.php/hwpv200740092040sadg.jpg?resize(450x)) So basically his taste and mine are polar opposites. If he says X would make it look better, I can pretty much assume that X would make me hate it. ---
**Author:** ![SparrowHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@SparrowHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SparrowHawk)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/113 "2008-04-30T05:32:50Z")
You are better than he is. He doesn’t like that. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/114 "2008-04-30T05:47:01Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] Well [this is the version](http://gallery.opalcat.com/gallery/being_art/being_art_day16?full=1) I took in for the final review (along with all the other things that I had to bring in–all my work from this semester, basically. ([this is basically it, except for the picture of Dominic with the candle which I didn’t bring in](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9740140&postcount=15) He didn’t like most of it. The horse was ‘not alive enough’ (gosh ya think? it’s supposed to be ethereal) and the rest of them were too dark and dull. He thought I didn’t do a good enough job on the hair and that it looks muddy. He had some other suggesteions that totally were contrary to what I wanted the painting to represent (he’s notorious for that when he’s not being so vague that you can’t even tell what he wants.) He asked me what my major was and seemed surprised that it was art (not something like art education–which is mostly people who want to teach art to gradeschool kids) which I found slightly offesive. The implication was that my work wasn’t good enough for that. I take what he says with a grain of salt, however. Here are examples of the kind of things he does: [whatever this is](http://www.csuohio.edu/art/f/fexamples/nevadomi_ex3.jpg)[elephant](http://pics.livejournal.com/opalcat/pic/000abzkf) [cowboys](http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/galleryimages/thumbnail1.php/hwpv200740092040sadg.jpg?resize(450x)) So basically his taste and mine are polar opposites. If he says X would make it look better, I can pretty much assume that X would make me hate it. [/QUOTE] The real question is how he felt about the rest of the class. It was sorta 10th grade, no-direction, paint whatever you want self portraits and then _yours,_ which was, I don’t know, 100 levels beyond those hacks. And I can sort of see where some of his is coming from, conceptually, but he sucks. That’s just how it is sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/115 "2008-04-30T05:48:31Z")
Yeah, lighten up that corner some. And, er…I might consider putting a slight furrow inbetween your eyebrows. Not the “really thinking” furrow, but a slight furrow. Your face is expressive, and as much as you try not to show the inner ripples, sometimes it does show when you don’t realize it. Put a little of that in there. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/116 "2008-04-30T05:52:34Z")
Nm, day late, a dollar short, it happens. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/117 "2008-04-30T06:26:05Z")
I may not know art, but I know what I like. He doesn’t sound like a particularly helpful or encouraging (or talented) “teacher” so I think it’s safe to ignore everything he has ever said to you. Art should be about what you want, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/118 "2008-04-30T13:46:35Z")
Your teacher’s response kind of surprises me, I thought he’d like, or at least respect, your work quite a lot. It’s not perfect, but I think your skills are sufficient for what you’re aiming at, and the two work well together. Plus it’s an interesting piece. If anything, I think you overworked it a little. Vague teachers will do that to a person, however. Did you do a group critique? What do your peers say? Your teacher’s work is good, clever, pleasing, but it looks like Manhattan Cocktail Party Backdrop to me. Derivative and non-confrontational. I think professors should stick with teaching “Painting 101” skills (which are VAST) and stop trying to teach intent, or direct content. Because learning how to incorporate someone else’s ideas in your work is a _graphic design_ skill, not fine art. Teach skills (color alone is a HUGE subject), let the student find the aesthetic aspect on her own, and get the fuck out of her way. What I hope you’ve proven to yourself, because I know you’re concerned about it, is there IS DEFINITELY a market for the kind of work you do, and for YOU. I don’t think it’s an illusion of the Dope - I think the Art Fair Attending Public (and there are a LOT of them) would buy things like your self-portrait, if you priced them right. It’s compelling and people related to it. Those giclee (sp?) prints might be just the thing. Selling is actually not _that_ hard, “the art world” does NOT reside exclusively in New York City. No one ever tells students this (at least they didn’t back in the day). It’s as if everyone’s supposed to be on track for a SoHo opening. But that’s not true, there are thousands of little SoHos in this country. In fact, my father-in-law has a painting much like your nude hanging in his bedroom. He bought it straight from the artist at one of those open studio nights in the warehouse district in Cincinnati. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/119 "2008-04-30T14:17:12Z")
There was no group critique, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601/120 "2008-04-30T14:40:40Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] He didn’t like most of it. The horse was ‘not alive enough’ (gosh ya think? it’s supposed to be ethereal) and the rest of them were too dark and dull. He thought I didn’t do a good enough job on the hair and that it looks muddy. He had some other suggesteions that totally were contrary to what I wanted the painting to represent (he’s notorious for that when he’s not being so vague that you can’t even tell what he wants.) He asked me what my major was and seemed surprised that it was art (not something like art education–which is mostly people who want to teach art to gradeschool kids) which I found slightly offesive. The implication was that my work wasn’t good enough for that. I take what he says with a grain of salt, however. Here are examples of the kind of things he does: [whatever this is](http://www.csuohio.edu/art/f/fexamples/nevadomi_ex3.jpg)[elephant](http://pics.livejournal.com/opalcat/pic/000abzkf) [cowboys](http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/galleryimages/thumbnail1.php/hwpv200740092040sadg.jpg?resize(450x)) So basically his taste and mine are polar opposites. If he says X would make it look better, I can pretty much assume that X would make me hate it. [/QUOTE] Listen, I had the same problem with an art professor. I’m not anywhere near your level but I’m far beyond what he was giving me credit for. If he tries to give you a B (I can’t imagine but just in case), do what I did: take your stuff to the head of the department and explain the situation. I guarantee you he will side with you. Mine did. Fuck this asshole. He’s mad because you’re better than him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-opinions-genuine-critique-on-a-painting/446601.md?page=7)