# Need relationship advice **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2006, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807 "2006-08-08T03:16:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Flea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d78d45/32.png) [@Flea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flea)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/41 "2006-08-09T19:16:17Z")
You asked for any kind of advice, and here is my gut response: there is a reason you didn’t just glibly file this away under “don’t give a damn” and posted about it, asking total unknowns to offer thier opinion. You know that you’re not okay with this. Why do you need the reassurance? Step 1 in living is being able to make your own decisions. I’d say quit interfering with the message your gut is sending you. You know what to do, it’s just apparently more comfortable for you to ignore the signals and plod ahead right now, but someday you’ll recall the exact moment you chose to let go, and regret it. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/42 "2006-08-09T19:16:46Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] I didn’t say that. Plenty of female doctors and nurses (etc) have taken advantage of their patients in the same way, and it’s just as unethical. Try not to be so defensive. I’m not talking about all men in all situations. I’m talking about healthcare givers screwing their patients. They have an unfair emotional advantage [/QUOTE] You’re still blaming him. It doesn’t sound like we’re dealing with doctors or nurses or even nurses aides in hospitals; it sounds like an independent who does this as a way to fill time. For all we know, he started doing the job with no sexual overtones and she was the aggressor. For all we know, she instigated the sleepover _before_ the OP and he started dating. Or you could be 100% correct. We don’t know, but I won’t jump to the conclusions that he is scum of the earth preying on lonely women. **DianaG** , that was totally uncalled for, especially given how little we truly know. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/43 "2006-08-09T19:17:26Z")
> [@](#): > > I sometimes do not mind if someone is seeing someone else on the side, especially this early in a relationship. Uh huh. The only question is who’s “on the side,” you or her. > [@](#): > > All I had wanted was honesty about it, and I believe thats what I got. Then no harm, no foul, right? IME, people get exactly the kind of relationship they demand – and deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/44 "2006-08-09T19:29:18Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] You’re still blaming him. It doesn’t sound like we’re dealing with doctors or nurses or even nurses aides in hospitals; it sounds like an independent who does this as a way to fill time. For all we know, he started doing the job with no sexual overtones and she was the aggressor. For all we know, she instigated the sleepover _before_ the OP and he started dating. [/QUOTE] It doesn’t matter who did the instigating. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. Whether she was the aggressor or not, you _Don’t. Sleep. With. Your patients._ unless you’re tired of your profession and are looking forward to a call from your state licensing board. It leads you to do stupid and unprofessional shit like, bringing a patient home with you the night before their treatment and caring for them there. What if something had happened and she was injured? The home health agency would’ve been responsible for that. Do you understand where I’m coming from, here? It doesn’t matter if it was one person seducing the other or a mutual attraction, whatever. You dont. Sleep. With. Your patients. And I’m sure this guy knows better. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/45 "2006-08-09T19:36:47Z")
[QUOTE=DianaG] Given the little I know of **BoxofNothing** , I’m assuming not that she’s misogynistic, but that she’s emotionally stunted and not especially bright. [/QUOTE] Well, THAT was rude. To the OP - I dunno - you said that you’re OK with him seeing other women because it’s early in the relationship, but then you post here because he’s seeing another woman. Is it possible it bothers you more than you think? Personally I think “I won’t be on the computer” is a perfectly valid reason for not e-mailing you. It makes me wonder if it had been his mom, or his brother, or his guy pal that was keeping him from e-mailing you if it would have bugged you so much, ya know what I mean? Anyhow - I hope everything works out ok. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/46 "2006-08-09T19:43:13Z")
I think you misunderstand what a Home Health Aide is. From [Florida](http://www.flahec.org/hlthcareers/HOME.HTM) > [@](#): > > They work under the supervision of a registered nurse and provide personal care such as bathing and assisting with grooming and dressing. He/she also has to assist the client with basic nursing care including transferring from bed to chair, extremities exercises, assist with medication, and nutrition. > > Aide caregivers also perform various housekeeping chores such as assisting with laundry, grocery shopping, and cleaning. Additional assignments allows the aide to take the client to their scheduled doctor’s visit, to pick up prescriptions, and to take the client to places they wish to go. The home health aide is expected to look and act provessional, reliable, compassionate, cheerful, and must enjoy working with people. It is essential that the aide be able to work independently with little direct supervision. The care provided may require lifting, carrying, bending, and reaching. > … > No license is required. How about the [U.S. Department of Labor](http://stats.bls.gov/oco/ocos173.htm) > [@](#): > > Personal and home care aides help elderly, disabled, ill, and mentally disabled persons live in their own homes or in residential care facilities instead of in health facilities. Most personal and home care aides work with elderly or physically or mentally disabled clients who need more extensive personal and home care than family or friends can provide. Some aides work with families in which a parent is incapacitated and small children need care. Others help discharged hospital patients who have relatively short-term needs. (Home health aides—who provide health-related services, rather than mainly housekeeping and routine personal care—are discussed in the statement on nursing, psychiatric, and home health aides, elsewhere in the Handbook.) > > Personal and home care aides—also called homemakers, caregivers, companions, and personal attendants—provide housekeeping and routine personal care services. They clean clients’ houses, do laundry, and change bed linens. Aides may plan meals (including special diets), shop for food, and cook. Aides also may help clients get out of bed, bathe, dress, and groom. Some accompany clients to doctors’ appointments or on other errands. > … > In some States, the only requirement for employment is on-the-job training, which generally is provided by most employers. Other States may require formal training, which is available from community colleges, vocational schools, elder care programs, and home health care agencies. The National Association for Home Care and Hospice (NAHC) offers national certification for personal and home care aides. Certification is a voluntary demonstration that the individual has met industry standards. Certification requires the completion of a standard 75-hour course and written exam developed by NAHC. Home care aides seeking certification are evaluated on 17 different skills by a registered nurse. The ex was sleeping with the fucking maid, not some trained professional acting under a Hippocratic oath. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/47 "2006-08-09T19:46:03Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] It doesn’t matter who did the instigating. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. Whether she was the aggressor or not, you _Don’t. Sleep. With. Your patients._ unless you’re tired of your profession and are looking forward to a call from your state licensing board. It leads you to do stupid and unprofessional shit like, bringing a patient home with you the night before their treatment and caring for them there. What if something had happened and she was injured? The home health agency would’ve been responsible for that. Do you understand where I’m coming from, here? It doesn’t matter if it was one person seducing the other or a mutual attraction, whatever. You dont. Sleep. With. Your patients. And I’m sure this guy knows better. [/QUOTE] It can’t be more plainly stated than that. If he was falling for her, he quits his job as her caregiver and then he can do whatever he wants. The fact that she instigated it is no excuse. He should have exercised self-restraint. If his employer knew he was doing this, he’d be fired for sure. ---
**Author:** ![BoxofNothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@BoxofNothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoxofNothing)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/48 "2006-08-09T19:46:38Z")
alice-you have a point. I had assumed it was because he had to get up early, as he had a dental probkem and was going to get it taken care of, or was taking some pain meds for the tooth, and would be zoned out. It was the saying he would explain at an appropriate time that caused me wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/49 "2006-08-09T19:49:20Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] I think you misunderstand what a Home Health Aide is. [/quote] I think you didn’t pay close enough attention to your own cite: > [@](#): > > Home care aides **seeking certification** are evaluated on 17 different skills by a registered nurse. They’re health care givers. They’re certified as such. Tell you what. Call a home health agency. Ask them. You obviously don’t believe me, so why not go to the source? Home health providers can be terminated for sleeping with their patients, whether they’re medical assistants, certified home health aides or RN’s. Just because you don’t like my answer doesn’t make it any less true. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/50 "2006-08-09T19:51:36Z")
[QUOTE=BoxofNothing] Yes, my daughter, age 16 is kept in the know of anyone in my life, I don’t see this man for sex, we go out socially, why not include my best friend; my daughter? [/QUOTE] Do you have any female friends (or heck, male friends for that matter) who are _not_ your your daughter? What do they think of this guy? (Saying that your teenage daughter is your _best friend_ seem to open a whole ‘nother can o’ worms. From my own admittedly anecdotal and limited experience, this isn’t a good situation.) Also, I am not a parent, but my understanding is that it’s wise for a single parent to keep their children and their dates separate for some period of time, so the kid isn’t subjected to a series of “uncles” or whatever. Whether this applies to a 16-year-old, I’ll let the parental-type Dopers chime in on, but I think I’d be inclined to be conservative. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/51 "2006-08-09T19:54:06Z")
> [@](#): > > The ex was sleeping with the fucking maid, not some trained professional acting under a Hippocratic oath. Nope. It’s construed as a relationship with a professional and a vulnerable party. It doesn’t matter if she started it; it doesn’t matter if he’s licensed or not. It’s unethical and/or illegal to have a sexual or romanic relationship with a person for whom you have healthcare or adjunctive healthcare responsibilities because of the potential for exploitation. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/52 "2006-08-09T20:13:17Z")
The _ **voluntary** _ certification? I did read it. If I wanted, I could put out an ad tomorrow and be a Home Health Aide in Florida (not sure about NY - different states, different laws). No training or certification necessary. Maybe an agency wouldn’t hire me, but there is no impediment to my legally calling myself a Home Health Aide, nor contracting for business as such. And as a Maid Plus™, there is nothing legally nor ethically preventing a relationship with a client (as long as I keep providing the Aide services, else I become a gigolo). If it makes you feel better to consider a part-time home health aide a “medical professional” in order to cast him as a heel, go right ahead. Do note: I’m going by the OP’s description of home health aide. If it does turn out he is a medical professional, that is a whole ‘nother can o’ worms. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/53 "2006-08-09T20:24:42Z")
Again; you appear to be having problems accepting that this has nothing to do with the care provider’s gender. It doesn’t. As for the “OP’s definition”, here it is in a nutshell: > [@](#): > > So I kept inquiring, and today he says he had one of his patients spend the night. A female, who he had been having a purely sexual relationship with for about a year **(he’s some sort of health aide, and she is a client)**. Unethical, illegal, grounds for termination. Whether you personally think it’s ethical is neither here nor there. I am willing to bet, in the presence of all Dopedom, any amount you feel able to afford that what this man has done is considered unethical _by healthcare standards and practices_. He referred to her as “a patient.” His patient. Do I really need to go over the whole “Don’t sleep with your patients” thing again? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/54 "2006-08-09T20:26:40Z")
I think I probably have nothing new to say here but it’s worth repeating. This is a person who has had a sexual relationship with a health care client (only doctors and nurses say “patients”). That is unethical–much differen than if he were, say, a [hair stylist](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073692/). It is probably also borderline to have her spend the night at his place. If she needed a ride he could have picked her up at her place in the morning. If he’s lying about his current relationship with her, you should drop him. If he’s telling the truth, then he’s been having meaningless sex with a health care client, and you should drop him. Even if you forget about the client part, he’s been having _meaningless sex_ with a woman for **a year**. Is that the kind of guy you want to be with? Three weeks isn’t that long to know somebody. You can do better. This advice comes from a 49-year-old guy on his second marriage (12 years and two kids) who dated rampantly before the first marriage and in the 12 years after, including two relationships of longer than 3 years. So I’ve been around the block a couple of times. ---
**Author:** ![BoxofNothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@BoxofNothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoxofNothing)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/55 "2006-08-09T20:26:43Z")
Unfortunately, I don’t save ALL e mails, but I recall him explaining early on about she requested him as an aide and they are sharing the money. You guys got me thinking about this; it is good to ask advice here, I see. I am sure she is not getting paid to be taken care of; a patient surely wouldn’t be, so it seems, if I recall correctly, he may be paying her for this. Or that, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/56 "2006-08-09T20:40:54Z")
[QUOTE=BoxofNothing] Unfortunately, I don’t save ALL e mails, but I recall him explaining early on about she requested him as an aide and they are sharing the money. You guys got me thinking about this; it is good to ask advice here, I see. I am sure she is not getting paid to be taken care of; a patient surely wouldn’t be, so it seems, if I recall correctly, he may be paying her for this. Or that, whatever. [/QUOTE] What do you mean, they’re sharing the money? My SIL has a home health care live-in and she pays her $850 per week, plus room and board. The money goes directly to the aide, though she was hired through an agency. Sharing the money? Are you saying he’s giving her a discount? Isn’t that a little like…I dunno…payng for sex (under these circumstances)? ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/57 "2006-08-09T20:43:26Z")
[QUOTE=BoxofNothing] Unfortunately, I don’t save ALL e mails, but I recall him explaining early on about she requested him as an aide and they are sharing the money. You guys got me thinking about this; it is good to ask advice here, I see. I am sure she is not getting paid to be taken care of; a patient surely wouldn’t be, so it seems, if I recall correctly, he may be paying her for this. Or that, whatever. [/QUOTE] Huh? I really, really, really do not understand this. At all. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/58 "2006-08-09T20:47:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I recall him explaining early on about she requested him as an aide and they are sharing the money. Woah. **BoxofNothing** , I wish you well and I also think DianaG was out of line. THIS thing, with the money, is … wrong. Just wrong. Here’s how I am interpreting it, though I could be off-base: The woman receives a stipend or some other form of payment to allow her to hire a home-health aide. This money could be coming from her health insurance plan, a charity group, a state agency… I don’t know. I just know that there are many agencies which enable disabled and ill people to afford in-home care. She is taking this money under the auspices of paying a home-health aide. Which she is doing, sort of, only instead of him rendering care and getting paid for it, he’s rendering “care,” and letting using the money for both of them. That’s bizarre, and another **huge red flag**. He gets points (to a degree) for being open with you about his actions. However, his actions are UNETHICAL. The way I read this is that he is setting a bar for you to either endorse or walk away from. He’s saying, “This is how I am. Love it or leave it.” If you are comfortable with this – and I don’t think you are, since you’ve posted about it – that’s your own lookout. But if I were you, I’d be very observant and protect myself from entanglements with this man. He has a loose moral compass. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/59 "2006-08-09T20:49:36Z")
[QUOTE=BoxofNothing] Unfortunately, I don’t save ALL e mails, but I recall him explaining early on about she requested him as an aide and they are sharing the money. [/quote] :eek: :eek: :eek: WHAT!!! Insurance fraud on top of all this? Good lord, woman, this soap opera just keeps getting more and more bizarre. > [@](#): > > I am sure she is not getting paid to be taken care of; a patient surely wouldn’t be, so it seems, if I recall correctly, he may be paying her for this. Or that, whatever. No. No,no,no,no,no. She pays him. At least, that’s the way it’s supposed to work. Either her insurance reimburses her for her home health costs or it doesn’t pay for hospice care (which I doubt, if she’s had cancer for over a year she more than likely qualifies for Medicare) and she’s paying him out of her own pocket. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807/60 "2006-08-09T20:50:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Unfortunately, I don’t save ALL e mails, but I recall him explaining early on about she requested him as an aide and they are sharing the money. > You guys got me thinking about this; it is good to ask advice here, I see. > I am sure she is not getting paid to be taken care of; a patient surely wouldn’t be, so it seems, if I recall correctly, he may be paying her for this. Or that, whatever. This doesn’t make any sense. If she’s a chemo patient and he is “some sort of health aide” then _she_ should be paying _him_ for the services he does for her – and I’m not talkin’ about sexual servicing, either. There’s no reason she should be “sharing” the money with him – it’s his money, his pay for the work he does. Under this scenario, what on earth would he be paying _her_ for? The privilege of sleeping with her and giving her baths? If so, that’s quite the Prince Charming you’ve stumbled on, there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-relationship-advice/367807.md?page=4)