# 'Need(s) \[past tense\]' **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 1, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183 "2015-10-01T23:01:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/1 "2015-10-01T23:01:13Z")
A windshield commercial has an actor (or actual employee) say ‘If your windshield needs fixed…’, and I just saw this post regarding an ultralight: ‘Does the fabric need replaced??’ Is this ‘need(s) [past tense]’ construction a recent thing? Or has it been around a while and is regional? ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/2 "2015-10-01T23:22:49Z")
It’s a colloquialism that appears in the dialects of Pittsburgh and Southern Ontario. It’s not really a past tense, more of a shortening of the standard “needs to be.” Will cite when off mobile… ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/3 "2015-10-01T23:26:48Z")
I encountered this construction once or twice when I lived in West Virginia. The Grammatical Diversity Project at Yale has [a page about what they call the “needs washed” construction](http://microsyntax.sites.yale.edu/needs-washed) which suggests it’s a regionalism found mainly from western Pennsylvania and northern West Virginia to central Indiana. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/4 "2015-10-01T23:28:16Z")
It’s not new. I heard it all the time when I lived in Iowa. I don’t hear it much on the East Coast. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/5 "2015-10-01T23:29:46Z")
Past participle as opposed to preterite. Yes, you can think of as an elision of a standard “to be” construction. It is indeed a dialect feature of the region around western Pennsylvania. If a cite is required, one may find one [here](http://www.jstor.org/stable/455549). Note that this paper was published in 1996, and cites commentary on the construction dating back to 1954. So, to the OP: it’s been around for a while, but it’s regional. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/6 "2015-10-01T23:56:29Z")
I must have missed something(s) in my English education. What’s a preterite? In fact, what specifically (something more than vaguely) is a participle? ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/7 "2015-10-02T00:32:42Z")
> [@Baffle](#): > > It’s a colloquialism that appears in the dialects of Pittsburgh and Southern Ontario. It’s not really a past tense, more of a shortening of the standard “needs to be.” > > Will cite when off mobile… So this [stack exchange](http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/24163/using-ed-vs-ing-in-the-needs-washed-construction) link traces its roots to a Scottish construction, which came to Appalachia with the Scots migration wave. There’s a lot of Scots in the rural areas of Wellington and Halton in south central Ontario which is where I’ve heard it a lot. There’s no linguistic cite for this, which seems like an oversight as it definitely exists here. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/8 "2015-10-02T01:43:08Z")
This question has come up here a time or two before, and it always feels baffling to me, because to my ear, that’s just ordinary language. What does “needs replaced” mean? It means “needs replaced”, of course. My family comes from western PA, so that’s probably where I picked it up. But I’ve never heard anyone in Cleveland find it remarkable when I use it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/9 "2015-10-02T01:48:30Z")
I’ve seen it on these boards many times–it’s, as others have said, a dialect feature of parts of Pennsylvania and some other regions. Not new at all. I have to say, while at first it grated, I’ve grown accustomed to it and find myself sneaking it into my speech every once in awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Mudshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mudshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mudshark)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/10 "2015-10-02T02:01:09Z")
Fairly common in Northeast Ohio, and it was common in Ann Arbor too. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/11 "2015-10-02T02:16:36Z")
While I didn’t learn it growing up, I’ve also incorporated it sometimes into my usage in the last decade or so. A bit of an abbreviation that makes sense. Like “In hospital.” ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/12 "2015-10-02T04:06:44Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I must have missed something(s) in my English education. What’s a preterite? > > In fact, what specifically (something more than vaguely) is a participle? Preterite is a fancy name for simple past, or an action or event that began and ended in the past (before the speaker spoke). A participle is a verb form that modifies a noun, verb, noun phrase, or verb phrase. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/13 "2015-10-02T14:32:39Z")
It’s common among people from Pittsburgh. My former supervisor’s supervisor would use it all the time in professional contexts - e.g. “this policy needs updated” Really, it’s a nice bit of shorthand. It needs more widely adopted. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/14 "2015-10-02T14:37:49Z")
I use it. I’m from SE Ohio. I mentioned it the other day in the dialect thread. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/need-s-past-tense/733183/15 "2015-10-02T16:30:04Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Yes, you can think of **it** as an elision of a standard “to be” construction. Turns out I elided a word here myself. Reinstated in bold.