# Needles

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/needles/341836>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [January 27, 2006, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/needles/341836 "2006-01-27T12:10:16Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 6\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![nar00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@nar00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nar00)\
**Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/needles/341836/1 "2006-01-27T12:10:16Z")

</div>

Does anyone know why the bigger the needle the smaller the number used to size it?

E.g. a ‘30G’ needle has a smaller diameter than a ‘14G’? I can’t find the information on any websites so hoped you lot might be able to help

Cheers,

nar00

(frustrated medical student)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\
**Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/needles/341836/2 "2006-01-27T12:22:59Z")

</div>

Lots of things are similar. Wire sizes are an example. A 20 gauge wire is smaller than a 10 gauge.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\
**Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/needles/341836/3 "2006-01-27T12:26:36Z")

</div>

Interesting. You learn something every day!

[here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge)

> [@Wikipedia](#):
>
> This seemingly-counterintuitive numbering is derived from the fact that the gauge number is related to the number of drawing operations that must be used to produce a given gauge of wire; very fine wire (for example, 30 gauge) requires far more passes through the drawing dies than 0 gauge wire.

Cool!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\
**Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/needles/341836/4 "2006-01-27T12:30:52Z")

</div>

I think that needles are based on the same type of system that wire sizes use. The reason you have bigger numbers for smaller wires/needles is that you start with a large size hunk of metal, and repeatedly draw it out until you get it down to the size you want. More draws corresponds to a thinner wire, so a size of 14 would mean it was drawn 14 times, and would therefore be much thicker than a wire that was drawn 30 times.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\
**Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/needles/341836/5 "2006-01-27T12:32:37Z")

</div>

I see that minor7flat5 not only types faster than I do, but even managed to post a link.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\
**Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/needles/341836/6 "2006-01-27T19:47:49Z")

</div>

And just because it’s somewhat relevant: It’s similar to shotgun gauges which are also a larger number the smaller the diameter of the barrel. While the gauge of wire and needles are related to drawings, the gauge of a shotgun is related to the number of spherical lead balls the same size as the barrel you can make from a pound of lead.