# Negative consequences of giving up US citizenship **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 7, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-consequences-of-giving-up-us-citizenship/673327 "2013-11-07T14:05:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-consequences-of-giving-up-us-citizenship/673327/21 "2013-11-08T18:35:44Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Wow! Seriously? Yes, seriously. This is a huge issue in Canada precisely because there are so many law-abiding Canadians who also hold US citizenship. A lot of these Americans-on-a-technicality have no Social Security number, and the ones I’ve talked to hope that by not getting one, they can stay off the radar. But this now effectively bars them from ever working in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-consequences-of-giving-up-us-citizenship/673327/22 "2013-11-08T19:59:11Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Wow! Seriously? > … As I read it, it is $151,000 per year in federal income tax liability. I am no law expert so I am not entirely clear if it is every year for 5 years (_i.e._ 5 x $151,000 = $755,000 or more in five years) or if hitting the limit in any one of the preceding five years is sufficient to trigger the penalty status. (_i.e._ 1 x $151,000 + 4 years x $0) Still, anyone with a home in certain areas of the country or a farm could easily find themselves hitting the asset limits. Land rich, cash poor. Further, all the references I can find refer to assets, but I see no explicit statement that these refer to net assets. Given the punitive nature of this law I am not certain that they wouldn’t push someone into penalty status who has a home or business with little equity and a massive loan balance. They have a big asset. And huge liability too. Or, of course, the filing requirements could trip you up no matter how great or small your tax liability. Filing US income taxes while living overseas is complicated. If someone missed one form five years ago, even if it did not affect his tax liability, then that would put him into penalty status under this proposed law. The proposed Ex-Patriot Act also had a provision to apply this penalty status retroactively to certain persons who renounced citizenship up to ten years prior to the implementation of the act. There is good reason to look closely at any law which proposes to retroactively impose a penalty of any kind. Curiously, the United States dealt with the issue of expatriation rather decisively in 1868. The US came out strongly in favor of the right of an individual to expatriate. [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_Act_of_1868) > [@Text of Preamble to the Expatriation Act of 1868](#): > > Whereas the right of expatriation is a natural and inherent right of all people, indispensable to the enjoyment of the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; > > and whereas in the recognition of this principle, this government has freely received emigrants from all nations, and invested them with the rights of citizenship; > > and whereas it is claimed that such American citizens, with their descendents, are subjects of foreign states, owing allegiance to the governments thereof; > > and whereas it is necessary to the maintenance of public peace that this claim of foreign allegiance should be promptly and finally disavowed; Of course that act was assuming people were expatriating themselves in order to emigrate to the United States. Subsequent SCOTUS opinions found the language broad enough to cover the right of Americans to renounce their citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-consequences-of-giving-up-us-citizenship/673327/23 "2013-11-08T23:45:24Z")
The East Germans used to shoot anyone who had the temerity to want to leave their wonderful country. Going back was certainly not an option. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-consequences-of-giving-up-us-citizenship/673327/24 "2013-11-09T03:40:53Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I have never gotten a Canadian passport and if anyone asks why, I will tell that it lasts only 5 years, can take up to a year to be issued and, in the meantime, they will keep my citizenship ID and then how do I get back? [hijack] I’m afraid you’re mistaken: you can now get a Canadian passport valid for 10 years, it gets issued within 10 days, and if you go into your local passport office, they’ll look your documents over, copy them, and return them on the spot. Mrs. D18 did it for us just yesterday. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-consequences-of-giving-up-us-citizenship/673327/25 "2013-11-09T08:12:08Z")
[http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3212603.shtml#.Un3r8B74CUn](http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3212603.shtml#.Un3r8B74CUn) > [@](#): > > A dog alerted to the woman, and Schaur Ives said federal agents stripped searched her at the facility, asked her to undress, to spread her genitalia and to cough. Female agents also allegedly pressed their fingers into her vagina looking for drugs. > > The woman claims they didn’t discover anything during the on-site strip search, so they took her to University Medical Center of El Paso. > > “First, medical staff observed her making a bowl movement and no drugs were found at that point,” Schaur Ives said. “They then took an X-ray, but it did not reveal any contraband. They then did a cavity search and they probed her vagina and her anus, they described in the medical records as bi-manual–two handed. Finally, they did a cat scan. Again, they found nothing.” > > The ACLU claims the federal agents never secured a search warrant before probing or touching the woman. Border guards can do anything according to them. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-consequences-of-giving-up-us-citizenship/673327/26 "2013-11-09T10:59:51Z")
One of my friends is an “Accidental American”. He was born in Maryland, to a mother who was working in the World Bank. Left when he was 18 months and did not have any other ties. When at the age of 23 he went to get a visa, he was told he needed a US passport. IIRC one of the Guantanamo inmates was also an Accidental American as well, who has no idea about his citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-consequences-of-giving-up-us-citizenship/673327/27 "2013-11-09T11:10:29Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > [http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3212603.shtml#.Un3r8B74CUn](http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3212603.shtml#.Un3r8B74CUn) > > Border guards can do anything according to them. Nitpick but that isn’t want bi-manual means usually. > [@](#): > > Bimanual Exam > > Two fingers are inserted into the vagina until they isolate the cervix. Then the health care professional tests for cervical motion tenderness, as classically seen in pelvic inflammatory disease. The examiner palpates the uterus, including location of the fundus of the uterus and the adnexal structures. > **[Pelvic examination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelvic_examination#Bimanual_Exam)** > > A pelvic examination is the physical examination of the external and internal female pelvic organs. It is frequently used in gynecology for the evaluation of symptoms affecting the female reproductive and urinary tract, such as pain, bleeding, discharge, urinary incontinence, or trauma (e.g. sexual assault). It can also be used to assess a woman's anatomy in preparation for procedures. The exam can be done awake in the clinic and emergency department, or under anesthesia in the operat Some clinic... There is also a video on youtube if you want to see it. I have no fucking clue why they wanted to feel her cervix. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-consequences-of-giving-up-us-citizenship/673327/28 "2013-11-09T14:58:49Z")
I find it frightning and scary the way America is changing and what it is turning into. All in the name of freedom and democracy, of course. I find “exit laws” a clear sign that something is wrong. Like a scorned person who wants to get revenge. “You owe all you are and all you have to us; in a way you belong to us and you cannot desert us without paying back.” That has been the thinking of some communist countries… and now America. Add this to the authoritarian mood that is taking over and it is a bad recipe. People who want to renounce their American nationality are being considered by public opinion and by laws almost like traitors. Sort of the same thing that happened with soviet defectors in their countries and yet in the west it was taken as a sign that things weren’t going well in their home countries. Maybe America could stop to think about all this for a moment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-consequences-of-giving-up-us-citizenship/673327.md?page=1)