# Negative thoughts about ENTERPRISE
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [March 9, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369 "2004-03-09T23:00:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/21 "2004-03-10T20:52:20Z")
WTF is up with the ‘Expanse’?
The current Enterprise moves at is fastest around warp 5 right? The later Star Treks ships’ move up to warp 10. The expanse that Enterprise took months to visit should be ‘right-around-the-corner’ in TNG terms. In 100’s of years (after all the series we’ve seen), the expanse will grow and become a huge treat - and then we notice something is amiss, and fight the invaders off. So, what, we ignored a huge reconfiguring of space that is closing in on us? I guess the Federation was busy with other foes during the other series…? Does this make any sense to anyone else?
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### Author:  [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/22 "2004-03-10T20:55:50Z")
On another message board, I heard a rumor that UPN was considering purchasing Firefly to replace the soon-to-be-cancelled Enterprise. I’ve got my fingers crossed that this is more than just wishful thinking.
I won’t miss Enterprise when it gets cancelled. Time to let the corpse of Trek rest in peace.
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### Author:  [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/23 "2004-03-10T20:57:52Z")
I said it at the beginning of Season 3, and I’ll say it again.
I’m treating this entire series as fanfic. I think that the writers had a treasure trove of potential storylines that they could have mined from the pre-existing canon, and that the only reason why they didn’t translated to, simply, “we were too lazy to go over the existing canon, so we’ll just make it up as we go along”. I don’t like laziness. I don’t care if the Bergama says this is canon. It’s not, says I.
Fanfic! Fanfic! Fanfic!
Now that that’s out of the way, this third season fanfic was actually much better than I had expected from this show. So much so that I daresay I would miss it if it were cancelled. It’s very good for fanfic.
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### Author:  [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/24 "2004-03-10T21:15:41Z")
> [@akrako1](#):
>
> WTF is up with the ‘Expanse’?
>
> The current Enterprise moves at is fastest around warp 5 right? The later Star Treks ships’ move up to warp 10. The expanse that Enterprise took months to visit should be ‘right-around-the-corner’ in TNG terms. In 100’s of years (after all the series we’ve seen), the expanse will grow and become a huge treat - and then we notice something is amiss, and fight the invaders off. So, what, we ignored a huge reconfiguring of space that is closing in on us? I guess the Federation was busy with other foes during the other series…? Does this make any sense to anyone else?
Well, judging by “Azati Prime”, it seems like the whole Xindi War is nothing more than the equivalent of Vietnam in the Temporal Cold War. I’m starting to think that maybe all the people that’re hoping that Enterprise will somehow snuff itself out in its final episode and that the final scene of the series shows the launch of a totally different ship with possibly the same crew.
On the one hand, I think that would be really stupid and have said so in the past on numerous occasions but it’d also be sort of interesting, but if they did that, they would definitely need to follow it up with some movies or mini-series that show the difference between this Enterprise and the canon one.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/25 "2004-03-10T21:25:35Z")
I admit…I miss it.
My cable company here in Ohio doesn’t have UPN.
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### Author:  [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/26 "2004-03-10T21:59:38Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#):
>
> If you go personal\*, though, I’ll kick your ass. And I’m a big strong freakazoid, too, so you’d better watch out! 🆒
I ain’t afeared uh you. Evun iffn you do run round in yur unnerwear.
Enjuy,
Steven
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/27 "2004-03-10T22:31:58Z")
> [@Cliffy](#):
>
> I feel the same way. I managed to get through Season 2 only because I had watched almost every other episode of Star Trek ever and by God I wasn’t going to punk out now. S3 is better, but whenever I start to enjoy an episode, I get an overwhelming feeling of dread because I know there’s a better than even chance they’re going to screw it up by the final act.
My thoughts exactly. There was not one single good episode in S1 or S2. There were a few good ones in S3, but I’m completely bored with the whole Xindi war deal-- we obvioulsy know the outcome since Earth is not destroyed in the future-- and there’s just too much time travel. With TT, you can change anything.
Oh, and before I foget, too, too many episodes that boil down to: Meet new alien species… invite alien species onboard and allow them to roam around at will… alien species tries to take over or destroy the ship.
I’ll take ST:V, post-Seven of Nine, anyday.
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### Author:  [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/28 "2004-03-11T01:58:45Z")
> [@Aesiron](#):
>
> Do humans have the interstellar patent on hydrogen ramscoops? 😕
Grrr … these aren’t plain old ramscoop intakes on the Xindi ships. If they were ramscoops, their destruction would result in a loss of, maybe, 0.0001 G’s of thrust during a battle at most. But these “intake manifolds” are fragile openings whose slightest fouling will result in the Xindi ships’ engines becoming **instantly** useless. They’re airplane jet intakes … in space! :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/29 "2004-03-11T02:04:27Z")
Maybe the Xindi haven’t had time to have to scrub out their intake manifolds with the destruction of their world and the attempted genocide of all Earthers or somethin’. Have you thought about that? Huh, huh? 😛
😃
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### Author:  [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/30 "2004-03-11T02:04:48Z")
> [@akrako1](#):
>
> The later Star Treks ships’ move up to warp 10.
No, only up to warp 9.975. (And that “slight” difference is more significant than it seems – TNG warp 9.975 is between 3000 and 7000 times the speed of light, while TNG warp 10 is _infinite_ speed.)
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### Author:  [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/31 "2004-03-11T02:31:35Z")
Nitpick: Warp 9.975 is the \*Intrepid \* Class’ **maximum cruising speed** , which means it can go at that speed indefinitely. It also has a **maximum rated speed** , though, which is a speed above its max. cruising speed that it can attain but can only hold for so long before there is irrepairable damage to the warp drive.
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### Author:  [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/32 "2004-03-11T05:03:03Z")
I tried to watch Enterprise, but I couldn’t get into it. I just don’t care about any of the characters or what happens to them. Also, I can’t stand the way that they’re blatantly ignoring established history. I mean, the _Borg_ appearing in a series set centuries before TNG?!!!
At this point, I say let the franchise rest. Bad Trek is _not_ better than no Trek. It is worse, because it lowers everyone’s expectations as to what good Sci-Fi should be.
Maybe in a few years, they’ll come up with a really good new show and produce that, but don’t rush it. Take the time to do it right.
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/33 "2004-03-11T14:05:50Z")
The continuing pontification by StarFleet personel bugs the gorn out of me.
“We’ve evolved past that.”
“We don’t allow such situations to exist in the \_\_ century.”
“That is what we were like.”
Metrons! Even an advanced civilisation is capable of petty or cruel behavior! And yet, we are supposed to believe that simply getting warp technology has changed the Hoo-mahn soul!
GAH!
(It was in _North Star_, too. I hate that rabbit.)
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### Author:  [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/34 "2004-03-11T19:02:47Z")
> [@Aesiron](#):
>
> Nitpick: Warp 9.975 is the \*Intrepid \* Class’ **maximum cruising speed** , which means it can go at that speed indefinitely. It also has a **maximum rated speed** , though, which is a speed above its max. cruising speed that it can attain but can only hold for so long before there is irrepairable damage to the warp drive.
True enough. However, I don’t recall them mentioning the maximum rated speed of the ship on _ST: Voyager_. What was the highest warp speed the _Voyager_ attained under its own power?
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/35 "2004-03-11T19:03:55Z")
> [@John Mace](#):
>
> I’ll take ST:V
_ **STAR TREK FIVE?** _
> [@](#):
>
> \*post-Seven of Nine
Oh. Okay.
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### Author:  [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/36 "2004-03-11T19:04:03Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#):
>
> I hate that rabbit.)
If there’s anything I hate more than a rabbit, it’s two rabbits.
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### Author:  [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/37 "2004-03-11T19:05:19Z")
> [@Cervaise](#):
>
> _ **STAR TREK FIVE?** _
Heh. The position of that colon before or after the “V” makes all the difference in the world, don’t it?
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### Author:  [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/38 "2004-03-11T20:28:08Z")
I just searched out [ditl.org](http://ditl.org) and it doesn’t have its maximum rated speed listed in yellow, which denotes a fact being canon so I assume its unknown.
I would guess it’s something like 9.98 or along those lines.
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### Author:  [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/39 "2004-03-11T23:05:26Z")
Having recently purchased the Firefly DVD set, I found that it showed me quite a few areas where Enterprise could improve. For example:
Space is rough- even apples and strawberries are a commodity in short supply! (Compare this with any Ent mess hall scene where the crew eats gigantic plates of tasty looking food)
Space is dangerous- In the first Firefly episode alone, three main characters get shot! With bullets!
Characters have depth and angst- Wash worries that the captain might have slept with his wife back in the day, Jayne is always up to no good, Inara has the unrequited (well somewhat) lurve for the captain, Simon and River never know who is going to come after them next, et cetera.
Things weren’t forgotten from week to week- for instance, Mal notices Jayne’s lack of loyalty in the first episode. This came back in “Ariel,” one of the best episodes. I won’t spoil it any further. There was also some great groundwork laid (no pun intended) with Saffron. The hands of blue guys were just evil and they only appeared twice! Firefly knows how to create conflict and keep it interesting. On Enterprise, Reed doesn’t get along with the MACOs. And he likes pineapple. WGASA?
The ship is fragile- a single component (catalyzer) mentioned in the first episode as being in need of repair does eventually break, causing all kinds of problems. There’s no magical repair station nearby. There’s no magical solution by use of particles that don’t exist (Star Trek’s famous “if we re-route the plasma manifolds through the main deflector we can create a subspace field that will…”). The captain has to make hard choices and he nearly dies trying to do things his own way.
There are no English speaking aliens! In fact, there are no aliens! No bumpy foreheads, no pointed ears, no human morals exaggerated into cultural traits. Just human beings trying to make a living in space.
The world seems more united in Firefly than it does in Enterprise’s utopia. On Firefly, the characters are fluent in Chinese and English and there’s been a fairly obvious blending of the cultures (Simon and River for example). With Enterprise (and Star Trek in general I guess) we’re left to suppose that after WWIII all the bad brown people were gone and all the nice clean white people could bring their morals to the rest of the ignorant galaxy. Star Trek implies that the problems were solved but never gets into the how. Firefly just tells it straight: humanity fucked up and had to leave.
Plus the bad guys on Firefly wear hats.
On preview: Sorry all, didn’t mean to hijack the thread and turn it into a round of Firefly worship. But Firefly did make it very clear to me that Enterprise is and always will be painfully lacking by comparison.
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negative-thoughts-about-enterprise/233369/40 "2004-03-11T23:37:36Z")
I weep for _Firefly_.
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