# Negotiation Is Over: Why people hate animal rights activists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 29, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418 "2011-03-29T19:28:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/1 "2011-03-29T19:28:39Z")
[OK, this is either actionable or just this side of actionable](http://negotiationisover.com/bringing-the-war-to-the-student-body-the-soft-bellied-target-of-the-vivisection-complex/): > [@](#): > > Every time a vivisector’s car or home — and, eventually, the abuser him/herself — blows up, flames of liberation light up the sky. Charming. > [@](#): > > [T]he only remnant of the atrocities being the trail of blood from the cages to the incinerator to the parking lot to the vivisectors’ homes, adorned with windows that can be opened and doors with locks that can be picked. This is just amazing. However, this is the icing on the cake. They want to attack students: > [@](#): > > When we attack professors, we can only expect limited gains. They are deeply entrenched in the holocaust, have vested financial interests, and enjoy a network of support and protection. Students, however, have no round-the-clock police protection, no access to the FBI, and no access to legislators. The weakest link in the chain is the student body. Vivisectors-in-training can be shut down with relative ease. Now, why would they be interested in the fact students don’t have round-the-clock police protection or easy access to the FBI? Oh, wait. I know why: > [@](#): > > Conversely, there will be no animal torturers tomorrow if we effectively eliminate them today. They have their final solution. [It looks something like this.](http://negotiationisover.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/santa_cruz_august_08.jpg) And it sounds something like this: > [@](#): > > Aspiring scientists envision curing cancer at the Mayo Clinic. We need to impart a new vision: car bombs, 24/7 security cameras, embarrassing home demonstrations, threats, injuries, and fear. And, of course, these students need to realize that any personal risk they are willing to assume will also be visited upon their parents, children, and nearest & dearest loved ones. The time to reconsider is now. And people wonder why I’m suspicious of Greenpeace and ALF and their fellow-travelers. ([via](http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/03/students_are_soft-bellied_targ.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+scienceblogs%2Fpharyngula+%28Pharyngula%29)) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/2 "2011-03-29T19:38:53Z")
Who the hell are these people? Do they really represent some sort of “continuum” of which Greenpeace is a part? ALF, maybe, but Greenpeace? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/3 "2011-03-29T19:42:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Who the hell are these people? Do they really represent some sort of “continuum” of which Greenpeace is a part? ALF, maybe, but Greenpeace? When someone’s waving a gun in your face, you don’t check their affiliation that closely. That’s my point. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/4 "2011-03-29T19:43:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Who the hell are these people? Do they really represent some sort of “continuum” of which Greenpeace is a part? ALF, maybe, but Greenpeace? Seriously. I mean, Greenpeace kicked out [Paul Watson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Watson) (who founded the Sea Shepherd group that gets into tussles with Japanese ships) because he espoused those sorts of confrontations, which went against their nonviolence policy. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/5 "2011-03-29T19:46:06Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > When someone’s waving a gun in your face, you don’t check their affiliation that closely. That’s my point. Maybe, but you’d be stupid to go around arresting the ASPCA volunteers because some asshole posts shit like that. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/6 "2011-03-29T19:48:15Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Seriously. I mean, Greenpeace kicked out [Paul Watson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Watson) (who founded the Sea Shepherd group that gets into tussles with Japanese ships) because he espoused those sorts of confrontations, which went against their nonviolence policy. Public dissociation is to be expected. I wonder how deep the real dissociation goes. Anyway, to answer **John Mace** ’s question, they’re obviously on the same continuum with Greenpeace and PETA and ALF and any number of others. The ASPCA isn’t. Do you see the obvious distinctions? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/7 "2011-03-29T19:57:35Z")
One anonymous guy on the internet puts up a crazy website, and suddenly every animal rights activist is to blame? You do realize this is just one guy, right? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/8 "2011-03-29T19:57:51Z")
I’m an animal rights activist, politically active, and I firmly distance myself from violent and illegal activities. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/9 "2011-03-29T20:00:53Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > One anonymous guy on the internet puts up a crazy website, and suddenly every animal rights activist is to blame? > > You do realize this is just one guy, right? Possibly. Possibly not. Also, every animal rights activist isn’t to blame. Every animal rights activist is associated with this, however, as long as people can find stuff like this online and quote it to the masses. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/10 "2011-03-29T20:03:32Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Public dissociation is to be expected. I wonder how deep the real dissociation goes. > > Anyway, to answer **John Mace** ’s question, they’re obviously on the same continuum with Greenpeace and PETA and ALF and any number of others. The ASPCA isn’t. Do you see the obvious distinctions? Considering that part of the schism appears to have been due to his massive ego, I’d say it’s probably real. And no, I don’t see the distinction why one is part of a particular continuum and another isn’t. The ASPCA started with a focus on slaughterhouse conditions and cockfighting, among other issues, though they’ve trended more towards domestic pets since then. Meanwhile, Greenpeace is very much an environmental group, with animals being ideal symbols of those efforts to show to the general public. ALF is about the farthest thing from an environmental group, plus there isn’t any actual leadership so any idiot can say they’re with the ALF and do whatever they want in it’s name. (Not that I’m defending the ALF.) ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/11 "2011-03-29T20:06:10Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Also, every animal rights activist isn’t to blame. Every animal rights activist is associated with this, however, as long as people can find stuff like this online and quote it to the masses. Are you serious? For reals? So every pro-life activist is associated with murderers? Every tax-cutter is associated with folks that fly planes into IRS buildings? Everybody who likes _Catcher in the Rye_ is associated with assassins? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/12 "2011-03-29T20:10:59Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Everybody who likes _Catcher in the Rye_ is associated with assassins? Well, yeah. You just can’t trust those guys. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/13 "2011-03-29T20:23:44Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Every animal rights activist is associated with this, however, as long as people can find stuff like this online and quote it to the masses. You know, I’d have thought it would be hard to find anything stupider than the Newt Gingrich quote that you started a thread about today. But you just topped it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/14 "2011-03-29T20:33:07Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > And no, I don’t see the distinction why one is part of a particular continuum and another isn’t. The ASPCA started with a focus on slaughterhouse conditions and cockfighting, among other issues, though they’ve trended more towards domestic pets since then. The ASPCA is focused on doing things that help both animals and humans, as opposed to media grandstanding that helps neither. It’s their public image. That’s what this is about. I mean, do none of you understand the idea of public image? None of you? Amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/15 "2011-03-29T20:45:21Z")
Greenpeace is an environmental group. They are not _anywhere_ on the continuum of animal rights. There is some overlap between the two movements, but there’s also active opposition between segments of each, too. More than a few environmentalists, including a set of the most radical, are hunters. Many environmentalists have no problem with animal research. Of course reasonable people–whatever their view of animal rights–will condemn terroristic threats in such a cause. But the OP shoots itself in the foot by linking in Greenpeace. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/16 "2011-03-29T20:55:48Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > I mean, do none of you understand the idea of public image? None of you? Amazing. I understand the idea of public image, and I do see where you’re coming at - there are always going to be people who take the actions of the fringe and identify it as the actions of the mainstream of that person’s affiliations. Just as there are people who take the actions of [this guy](http://bumpshack.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/oj_mug_lapd.jpg) and use them to reach assumptions about blacks in general, or the antics of [this guy](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Rsl_LePBeKE/SGIBmNFCGvI/AAAAAAAAB5c/_Bp8NFSW7fg/s400/Reveller,+Gay+Pride+Parade,+Sao+Paulo,+Brazil+by+Andre+Penner.jpg) and draw conclusions about all gays, there are people who will look at the actions of the guy you linked to, and draw conclusions about all animal rights organizations. We know this is true, because you’ve done it in your OP. What, I think, is puzzling most of us is what you expect anyone (other than law enforcement) to do about this. If his words are somehow tainting Greenpeace, what is Greenpeace supposed to do about that? They’ve already publicly disavowed violent action, and taken steps to purge such people from their ranks. What else can they do? Give up on environmental activism? Because some random nutjob on the outer edges of their political axis said some stupid, reprehensible bullshit? That seems a tad unreasonable to me, but I’m generally not sure what else you’re looking for, here. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/17 "2011-03-29T21:13:17Z")
I’m just giving a heads-up, and an excuse to laugh at something. Pointing and laughing at the clowns is a time-honored tradition around here. Also: Greenpeace is linked in because of their public image as media grandstanders with essentially nothing worthwhile to their name. If you’re going to be out in the public eye, either do something worthwhile and substantial, like the ASPCA, or risk being grouped with other, less savory media grandstanders who’ve also done nothing substantial. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/18 "2011-03-29T21:18:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Jas09](#): > > > > Everybody who likes Catcher in the Rye is associated with assassins? > > Well, yeah. You just can’t trust those guys. I hear they’re all a bunch of phonies anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/19 "2011-03-29T21:26:19Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Greenpeace is linked in because of their public image as media grandstanders with essentially nothing worthwhile to their name. If you’re going to be out in the public eye, either do something worthwhile and substantial, like the ASPCA, or risk being grouped with other, less savory media grandstanders who’ve also done nothing substantial. Uh-huh. [Here is the list](http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/about/victories/) of what Greenpeace count as their victories. I leave it to readers to judge the substance. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418/20 "2011-03-29T21:35:12Z")
Minus the weak rage this would have been better in MPSIMS as PALATR [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/negotiation-is-over-why-people-hate-animal-rights-activists/576418.md?page=2)