# Neighbor has Pit Bulls - Does Pepper Spray Work? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355 "2009-08-31T14:41:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/61 "2009-09-01T00:53:20Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Train your children on how to treat dogs, and not to fear or be nervous. Otherwise you’re setting them up for failure. Now how am I supposed to do that? We don’t HAVE a dog. We really don’t WANT a dog - we have no fence, nor the desire to take a dog for walks (and never mind cleaning up the poo). Plus we have two cats. And my kids are 5 years old. Despite their sometimes amazing (to me anyway) verbal skills, they’re still mostly instinct in their reactions. It’s all or nothing, fear or love. You bet your ass I want them to fear that specific dog. This has been really interesting, I’m glad I asked here. I think I know now why Jennifer’s walking them at 6:30 a.m. I don’t think she’s had both dogs out for a walk during “family hour” in months. When she only had Onyx we’d see them occasionally, but now that I think of it, the kids have never seen Red close-up. I don’t think she even has them in their compound very often. I will DEFINITELY go out of my way to avoid any chance that I (or my kids) will cross paths with those dogs. Jennifer’s a reclusive person who seems to really care about her pets - she comes home every day at lunchtime to tend to them. I hope it doesn’t end in tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/62 "2009-09-01T01:00:05Z")
I should probably add, **fessie** , that I wasn’t talking about having her dog impounded. I just meant that perhaps she could be required to keep Red confined to her property, where brute force on her part isn’t the only thing keeping him from harming someone. ---
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/63 "2009-09-01T01:24:56Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Train your children on how to treat dogs, and not to fear or be nervous. Otherwise you’re setting them up for failure. Why should anyone feel compelled to “train” their children how to treat dogs? Dogs are property, not people, and the responsibility of controlling them and insuring that they aren’t a threat is on the dog owner. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/64 "2009-09-01T02:08:00Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > How do you know the dog is a pitbull? [Most people I know got the wrong answer here](http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html) and I’ve lost count of how many people call a dog a pitbull when it’s actually a boxer, or a bulldog, or a bull terrier, etc. What a crappy poll that was. It had exotic dogs nobody ever heard of. When I go to the park It had dogs with the same derivation,which may not be specifically a Stafford Terrier. I run into pitts, irish setters, labs ,and my dogs are beagles. Yes I can tell them apart. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/65 "2009-09-01T02:11:21Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > I like that ammonia suggestion even better, I can do that. One of those RealLemon lemons (or limes) would fit in my hand just fine. > > I’ll watch Red’s behavior more closely next time. What happened the first time is they barked and struggled against the leash as I approached. The owner (Jennifer) stopped, spoke quietly to them and had them heel. > > As I walked past, slowing a bit and saying hello to Jennifer, Red watched me warily and growled quietly but was paying attention to Jennifer’s instructions and sitting pretty still. Her other dog, Onyx, wasn’t paying close attention to me. As Red turned his head to continue watching me, he bumped Onyx and she startled and jumped and then Red went into a frenzy directed to everyone, most especially ME. Both dogs were barking at that point. > > The next day I didn’t even slow down to acknowledge Jennifer, but I kept my eye on those dogs. It seemed like she had more trouble getting them to both sit this time. And again, as Red was watching me, he bumped into Onyx and then she barked and he went bananas. > > She is not a large woman, if she picks up a third dog I’m sure the pack will outweigh her. > > Jennifer said that Onyx was nipping Red to “keep him in line” but what I thought I saw was a dog who was fixated on ME. I didn’t get the impression that Onyx was dominant in the least. > > It was the tone of the barking that worries me. Our next-door neighbor has a large goofy dog, it barks a lot but it’s friendly. There’s a big Labrador mix that gets loose occasionally and wanders through the kids’ play, he’s friendly too. > > Red doesn’t seem at all friendly, his bark was gutteral with lots of teeth-baring. > > And no, I don’t know exactly what breed (or mixture) it is - my girlfriend w/the kids told me it’s a pit bull (and it resembles the photos I’ve seen but WTF do I know). The dogs do not have to outweigh her. They have terrific pulling force. When my 2 beagles see a rabbit or a squirrel, they pull with a force far beyond their weight. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/66 "2009-09-01T02:25:33Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The dogs do not have to outweigh her. They have terrific pulling force. When my 2 beagles see a rabbit or a squirrel, they pull with a force far beyond their weight. True dat. My 15-pound puppy almost pulled me off my feet the first time he spotted a squirrel. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/67 "2009-09-01T02:26:29Z")
I’ll skip the discussion on Pit Bulls, etc. and just add a data point. When my neighbor’s large Rottie attacked my dog, pepper spray didn’t work very well. It bothered the dog, but not enough to make him stop. I don’t remember the specifics of the spray, but this was many years ago, and I hear you can get more powerful pepper spray nowadays. Hopefully someone knowledgeable can confirm this. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/68 "2009-09-01T03:00:15Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > What a crappy poll that was. It had exotic dogs nobody ever heard of. When I go to the park It had dogs with the same derivation,which may not be specifically a Stafford Terrier. I run into pitts, irish setters, labs ,and my dogs are beagles. Yes I can tell them apart. Can we drop the pit bull poll hijack and get back to the main thrust of the op? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/69 "2009-09-01T03:17:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The only thing worse than an attack by a pit bull is an attack by 2 pit bulls. And the only thing worse than an attack by 2 pit bulls is an attack by 84 pit bulls. Or 4 cobras. Or 1 grizzly bear. Or 1,001 rabid squirrels. Or 2 drunk Irishmen. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/70 "2009-09-01T03:27:33Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > And the only thing worse than an attack by 2 pit bulls is an attack by 84 pit bulls. Or 4 cobras. Or 1 grizzly bear. Or 1,001 rabid squirrels. Or 2 drunk Irishmen. You’ve obviously never dealt with [squirrels](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRBVh8ZPUyg). ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/71 "2009-09-01T03:53:38Z")
> [@Jettboy](#): > > Why should anyone feel compelled to “train” their children how to treat dogs? Dogs are property, not people, and the responsibility of controlling them and insuring that they aren’t a threat is on the dog owner. Just like any decent parent would train/show/teach their children to deal with people who look and act differently than their immediate family members do. By your explanation, **Jettboy** , people shouldn’t learn how to respect another’s lawn, home, and any other property. I assume you’d want show a child how to treat and behave towards the rest of the world in different places that are “property” as well - the mall, the local park, school, etc. > [@fessie](#): > > Now how am I supposed to do that? We don’t HAVE a dog. We really don’t WANT a dog - we have no fence, nor the desire to take a dog for walks (and never mind cleaning up the poo). Plus we have two cats. > > And my kids are 5 years old. Despite their sometimes amazing (to me anyway) verbal skills, they’re still mostly instinct in their reactions. It’s all or nothing, fear or love. You bet your ass I want them to fear that specific dog…I hope it doesn’t end in tragedy. You likely don’t have a pool do you? But you’ve taught or soon will teach your children to swim, presumably for their enjoyment and for their safety. The same principle applies to children and dogs. Your kids are bound to run into dogs at a friend’s house, the park, while on walks around the neighborhood as they grow older, and they should have a comfortable relationship with them. It’s in their best interest, and it’s clear that’s your prerogative. Why not teach them how to treat dogs in general, and react to specific instances, rather than instilling fear? This strikes me as a very “teachable moment”, and instilling fear will translate into a young adult that can’t be around dogs at a friend’s house, at the park, or anywhere you’d run into one. Ending the whole post with “I hope it doesn’t end in tragedy” shifts the entire responsibility to the owner and none to yourself as a parent. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/72 "2009-09-01T04:16:53Z")
There is a product called bear spray, that is 10 times more concentrated than pepper spray and with greater range. Supposedly it will take down a hungry and angry polar bear. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/73 "2009-09-01T04:24:44Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Train your children on how to treat dogs, and not to fear or be nervous. Otherwise you’re setting them up for failure. I once had a neighbor with a viscous dog which once jumped over the fence and blocked me from leaving my unattached garage. Imagine my surprise when I opened the door. The dog couldn’t read my land deed so it didn’t know where the property line is. The dog couldn’t read my mind because if it knew I was holding pruning sheers it would be looking for someplace else to be. Had I not been able to shut the door there would have been pieces and parts of something on the ground and I think most of it would have been the dog. What would you train an unarmed child to do when attacked by a viscous dog? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/74 "2009-09-01T04:28:20Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > There is a product called bear spray, that is 10 times more concentrated than pepper spray and with greater range. Supposedly it will take down a hungry and angry polar bear. What does it do to any humans in the vicinity? ETA: I don’t think you can teach kids how to disarm an attacking dog. But there is still you can do to make sure they don’t get bitten–don’t pet strange dogs, don’t manhandle the dog, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/75 "2009-09-01T04:58:59Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Just watch your kids like you’re supposed to. As for a fence - a willing dog will jump over nothing less than a 6’ fence. Train your children on how to treat dogs, and not to fear or be nervous. Otherwise you’re setting them up for failure. I have to say, it’s pretty hard to train people who are afraid of dogs not to fear dogs. I say this as a person who spent most of my youth afraid of dogs–even cocker spaniels. They can smell fear, they can SEE fear. And are prone to exploit it. They can also see and smell authority, but first you have to develop it. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/76 "2009-09-01T06:43:14Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > But are we really saying that one can’t, in any way, shape or form -in very broad strokes- determine that certain breeds of dog (pit bulls, rotts, German Shepherds and Dobermans) pose a greater level of threat than some other breeds? We have two dogs. One weights 12 pounds the other is a Min-Pin and weights all of 6 pounds. If the minpin weighed 50 pounds she’d rip the throat out of pretty much anyone she met. She was mistreated for years before we got her and we’ve managed to socialize her quite a bit. But we keep little kids away from her because they think she is a toy and she will may nip at them. If she was 50 pounds we probably would have had her put down. But she is 6 pounds. Any person on the planet not a quadriplegic could scare her off or hold her down. We were at the dog walking park a couple of months ago and a woman was walking what I thought, from a distance, was a pony. It was an exceptionally large dog with a woman who had to be no more than 5’ tall. Seriously, she could have ridden it like a horse. The dog wasn’t aggressive in any way. It was indifferent to everyone and all the other dogs around it. Yet, what if it decided to attack someone or just wander off in a direction that the owner didn’t want it to go in? There was no way she was going to physically control it. Unless she had a hidden gun there was no way for her to stop it other than through whatever controls she trained into it. I am amazed that we allow people to have large animals as pets that they can’t easily physically control. Why does a person need an 80 pound animal in a city or suburb when a 30 pound one does essentially the same thing and is less of a danger to themselves and neighbours. Or is there something useful a large dog does that a smaller one doesn’t? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/77 "2009-09-01T06:59:29Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > There is a product called bear spray, that is 10 times more concentrated than pepper spray and with greater range. Supposedly it will take down a hungry and angry polar bear. Give the man who tested that a medal. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/78 "2009-09-01T07:39:19Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > The news is full of “kids taken from yards and bus stops and malls” stories. > > You _have to_ supervise nowadays. > > . 90% by relatives and non-custodial parents. “Stranger danger” is way overstated, and it’s not worse today that it was 50 years ago. If I was getting a dog to protect my kids from a pit bull, it’d be a Alaskan Malamute. I have seen a mal vs pitbull fight, and it was not nice for the Pitbull at all- he grabbed the fur in the neck, and the Mal proceeded to rip him apart, taking no serious damage. Of course, the Mal outweighed the Pitbull 2-1. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/79 "2009-09-01T10:27:05Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Ending the whole post with “I hope it doesn’t end in tragedy” shifts the entire responsibility to the owner and none to yourself as a parent. That statement was with respect to Jennifer’s relationship with her dogs. She lives alone; there’s nobody with a baseball bat on standby in her house, should Red lose it there. Of course I’m not teaching my children to cower in fear at all dogs, I’ve made it clear that my concern is not directed at the entire species. But your insistence that I teach them to “stand firm, be commanding and don’t show fear” is ridiculous. Five-yr-old human children are not wired that way. One of those flawed studies stated that boys age 5-9 are particularly vulnerable. I definitely believe that. My 5-yr-old boy is just curious and clever enough to get himself in a HEAP of trouble. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/80 "2009-09-01T11:49:16Z")
I should probably be specific - teaching them to stand firm when Red’s around is ridiculous. Avoidance is what I’m teaching them. Because, again, let me state this clearly: small children have a very difficult time with nuance, with degree, with going-so-far-but-no-further. Most things are black or white to them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355.md?page=5)