# Neighbor has Pit Bulls - Does Pepper Spray Work? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355 "2009-08-31T14:41:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/81 "2009-09-01T11:57:42Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Just like any decent parent would train/show/teach their children to deal with people who look and act differently than their immediate family members do. By your explanation, **Jettboy** , people shouldn’t learn how to respect another’s lawn, home, and any other property. I assume you’d want show a child how to treat and behave towards the rest of the world in different places that are “property” as well - the mall, the local park, school, etc. Strangers, neighbor’s lawns, homes, malls, parks and schools aren’t very likely to bite a child’s face off. Here’s an idiotic analogy for you, since you seem partial to them; my advice to my child in dealing with an unknown dog is much the same as my advice in dealing with a chainsaw in the “ON” position; _leave it the fuck alone_. When the chainsaw’s owner is located, he or she will be warned to control their chainsaw and keep it where it can’t harm anyone, or I’ll switch it permanantly into the “OFF” position. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/82 "2009-09-01T12:44:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What would you train an unarmed child to do when attacked by a viscous dog? I’m sorry, but this is absurd. Teaching a child to be comfortable around dogs is important, just like teaching people how to swim is important. Teaching them how to defend themselves from an angry sabertooth tiger attack is just as important as teaching them how to deep sea dive at the age of 8. “I can’t teach my child to fend off a pack of angry boars, so I’m not even going to bother with cooking him bacon for breakfast. I can’t risk it.” ---
**Author:** ![PapSett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@PapSett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PapSett)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/83 "2009-09-01T12:58:08Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > We have two dogs. One weights 12 pounds the other is a Min-Pin and weights all of 6 pounds. If the minpin weighed 50 pounds she’d rip the throat out of pretty much anyone she met. She was mistreated for years before we got her and we’ve managed to socialize her quite a bit. But we keep little kids away from her because they think she is a toy and she will may nip at them. If she was 50 pounds we probably would have had her put down. But she is 6 pounds. Any person on the planet not a quadriplegic could scare her off or hold her down. > We were at the dog walking park a couple of months ago and a woman was walking what I thought, from a distance, was a pony. It was an exceptionally large dog with a woman who had to be no more than 5’ tall. Seriously, she could have ridden it like a horse. The dog wasn’t aggressive in any way. It was indifferent to everyone and all the other dogs around it. Yet, what if it decided to attack someone or just wander off in a direction that the owner didn’t want it to go in? There was no way she was going to physically control it. Unless she had a hidden gun there was no way for her to stop it other than through whatever controls she trained into it. > I am amazed that we allow people to have large animals as pets that they can’t easily physically control. Why does a person need an 80 pound animal in a city or suburb when a 30 pound one does essentially the same thing and is less of a danger to themselves and neighbours. Or is there something useful a large dog does that a smaller one doesn’t? I have followed this thread with interest, but avoided posting. However, THIS post brought me out. Why does a person need an 80 lb. dog? REALLY? Maybe I don’t _need_ 2 80 lb Gordon Setters. Honestly? They’d be perfectly useless as protection dogs, I think, because they love EVERYBODY. They aren’t barkers. They certainly aren’t sled dogs. They couldn’t herd anything if their lives depended on it. So why do I NEED them? because I happen to LOVE them. I like having a big, goofy dog to hug. I also have 2 small dogs (Hey… why does anyone need _4_ dogs???) but my heart lies with the Gordons. My dogs aren’t a danger to me or to ANYONE. Just because they’re big doesn’t make them dangerous. I’ll take a big, gentle, well-trained dog ANY DAY over a 6 lb ankle biting Min Pin. See… training is the key here. If a dog-ANY dog- is trained to respect humans, they are not a danger. Who are you to judge, to say no one ‘needs’ a big dog? I take huge offence to that. As far as the Pit Bull debate… I see both sides of the coin. I have known some very sweet ‘Pits’ (I use the term as a blanket for many of the breeds lumped together as Pits) and I have known some not so nice. It is a combination of nature and nurture in my experience; Pits DO tend to be dog aggressive, it’s what they were bred for, and to me, that is a big turn off. I want my dogs to get along with all other creatures, human, canine, even feline. Yes, if I see a Pit running loose in the neighborhood, I am more concerned than if it’s a Lab or a Poodle. It _might_ not be any more aggressive, but it it chooses to do so, It has the capability of doing mure damage. I think Fossie is doing her children a disservice by teaching them to be afraid of dogs. Teach them respect, yes. Teach them to never approach a stray or loose dog. Teach them to ask the owner pemission to pet the dog first. Hell, even teach them dog body language, what to look for as a sign of agression. They are old enough to learn. But DON’T teach them fear. That’s my 2 cents. I will continue to watch this thread with interest. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/84 "2009-09-01T12:59:17Z")
Here is what I have trained my children about dogs: If it is a strange dog, then you stay well the fuck away unless and until the owner has specifically told you that it is OK to approach and pet the dog. If it is a strange dog and the owner is not with it, then you GET INSIDE THE HOUSE IMMEDIATELY. I am not training my kids how to “stand firm” to an aggressive dog, because 1) that’s expecting too much of a 5-year-old child (my kids are 7, 5, and 2, although the 2-year-old doesn’t play outside alone, obviously), and 2) I prefer to teach them to be nowhere near the aggressive dog in the first place. They see an unattended dog outside, they run for the door. That’s the house rule, and they’re good at following it. Edit in response to the above post: I don’t feel like this rule is teaching my kids to fear dogs. I am attempting to teach them a healthy respect for dogs, and since most of the dogs in this neighborhood outweigh even my 7-year-old, I think it’s just prudent to get the hell inside if there’s an off-leash unattended dog roaming around. Which does happen from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/85 "2009-09-01T13:37:53Z")
> [@PapSett](#): > > Why does a person need an 80 lb. dog? > > REALLY? Really. You love the dogs AFTER you bought them. Would you care if they were 30 pounds or 80? Are there 30 pound dogs that do exactly the same as your 80 pound ones do? If so, why do you have 80 pound ones? What benefit do you gain from them that they are larger? If you’re 80 pound dog went wacko (for whatever reason) could you wrestle it to the ground? Do you expect a child to be able to? > [@](#): > > My dogs aren’t a danger to me or to ANYONE. Just because they’re big doesn’t make them dangerous. I’ll take a big, gentle, well-trained dog ANY DAY over a 6 lb ankle biting Min Pin. Everyone who has a dog that just ripped the face off of some little kid says the exact, the EXACT, same thing about their dog. Amazing that. As I said, my minpin isn’t the most pleasant dog with strangers. She doesn’t trust them. She seems to love us. Partly that is the breed. They tend to be protective of their ‘pack’. Mostly because she was mistreated and teased as a puppy. But she is only 6 pounds and anything more than a feeble kick would send her running. > [@](#): > > See… training is the key here. If a dog-ANY dog- is trained to respect humans, they are not a danger. Who are you to judge, to say no one ‘needs’ a big dog? I take huge offence to that. How about this then if it makes you happier. You don’t need ANY dogs. But as long as you are living in a society where others can get hurt because of your decisions, you should take efforts to minimize the effects of your choices. A smaller dog is easier to control by any party, not just the owner that ‘trained’ them (or neglected, kicked, terrorized, etc, them). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/86 "2009-09-01T13:47:41Z")
[Moderator Admonition]Take the debate about how gentle/deadly pitbulls/bigdogs are _elsewhere_. The OP is talking about how to defend self and children against a particular dog that acts agressively, in case it decides to attack. The next off-topic post is getting an official warning.[/Moderator Admonition] ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/87 "2009-09-01T14:27:43Z")
There is very little she can do re-actively to stop the neighbors dog once it has gone nuts. It is a big and powerful dog. It takes a lot of strength and force to get a dog like that off of a person it is attacking. As has been noted beating it over the head with a baseball bat might not even work. And if you aren’t the most athletic, you’re just as likely to miss the dog and hit the kid with the bat. A gun isn’t an optimal solution. If you were Annie Oakley with it, you might be able to nail the dog and not the child. But, from my experience as a hunter, bullets tend to bounce when they hit bone. You wouldn’t like it if you nailed the dog and the bullet ricocheted into your kid. A knife could work. You ever try sticking a knife into something jumping around like a dog? Do you have strong enough wrist and arm strength to plunge it far enough into the animal to do real damage. To do it multiple times? And not stab yourself or your kids at the same time? And that is assuming you are there to do anything at all in a reasonable amount of time. A far better solution is prevention. Talk to the neighbor and voice your concerns. Make sure she understands the consequences if her dog(s) get loose and hurt someone. Both civil and criminal. Take note of her reaction. I’m sure juries would like to hear that you voiced your concerns and she didn’t take any actions to prevent the attack (actually, I’d tell her that if she gave you a hard time). Talk to the other neighbors and see if they have the same concerns. All of you approach her as a group. If she still isn’t going to do anything, then you’ll have to. Put up a fence. Contact the authorities. Check the bylaws. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/88 "2009-09-01T15:26:45Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Here is what I have trained my children about dogs: If it is a strange dog, then you stay well the fuck away unless and until the owner has specifically told you that it is OK to approach and pet the dog… > > I don’t feel like this rule is teaching my kids to fear dogs. I am attempting to teach them a healthy respect for dogs, and since most of the dogs in this neighborhood outweigh even my 7-year-old, I think it’s just prudent to get the hell inside if there’s an off-leash unattended dog roaming around. Which does happen from time to time. This is exactly what I was trying to convey - a healthy respect for dogs, apprehension in certain situations (I didn’t explicitly state this, clarifying now), and overall a respect for them. As for **Jettboy** , the Pit is elsewhere. I won’t dignify your childish analogy. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/89 "2009-09-01T15:31:55Z")
> [@Jettboy](#): > > Why should anyone feel compelled to “train” their children how to treat dogs? Dogs are property, not people, and the responsibility of controlling them and insuring that they aren’t a threat is on the dog owner. For the same reason that you teach them to swim. It is simple survival information that everyone should have. My parents taught me early to stay away from strange dogs, and to immediately get out of reach (calmly and slowly without running) of any dog whose tail wasn’t wagging. My daughter is only two and already she will not approach any dog unless I have my hand on its collar. They are old enough to learn those lessons. Unfortunately, they already have the example of the friendly Houdini next door, and you will have to really press the issue to make them understand - if they see a dog they don’t know (actually, I’d go with ANY dog) wandering uncontrolled, (no matter how far away) they should slowly and calmly head indoors, bringing any little kids along. They should also group together, and move in a huddle. Have drills, show them what you mean. Do it this way any time you are calling them in for a while. Make it a game - say “Dog Drill” to start the huddle and move process. If they come in on their own, give a prize to whoever spots the dog first. (This will help them learn situational awareness. Don’t let them giggle and hyperventilate; teach them to do it calmly and quietly. In case the worst should happen, teach them that if a dog is coming toward them to attack, drop belly down in the fetal position and lace your hands around the back of your neck. When they are a little taller and more powerful, teach them to deal with a dog attack by kicking the dog in the throat. And ditto to everything MaGiver said. Including the fact that drunken Irishmen are probably more dangerous than other breeds. . . [Ducks and runs] 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/90 "2009-09-01T15:37:55Z")
Oh, and if the worst should happen: on some dogs the jaw can “lock” and even the dog is incapable of opening it. The thing to do is to jam your thumb into the the soft meat directly behind and under the jaw hinge. This will force the jaw open. Do not try to pull the dog away fromt he victim until the jaw is open - that would only increase the tearing. Strange how these lessons are coming back to me . . . I haven’t thought about them in ages. Having a Ranger for a Dad is useful! LOL! ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/91 "2009-09-01T15:51:14Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Oh, and if the worst should happen: on some dogs the jaw can “lock” and even the dog is incapable of opening it. Cite please. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/92 "2009-09-01T15:53:26Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Oh, and if the worst should happen: on some dogs the jaw can “lock” and even the dog is incapable of opening it. The thing to do is to jam your thumb into the the soft meat directly behind and under the jaw hinge. This will force the jaw open. Do not try to pull the dog away fromt he victim until the jaw is open - that would only increase the tearing. We’ve been over this time and again as well. No dogs jaws can “lock”. It is simply impossible. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/93 "2009-09-01T15:55:17Z")
I’ve prised a pitbull’s jaws of my dog’s ear with my bare hands, so it isn’t a pitbull that has “lock jaw”, if any dog has it. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/94 "2009-09-02T00:17:06Z")
[http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/090901/K09019AU.html](http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/090901/K09019AU.html) > [@](#): > > The Cumberland County Sheriff’s Office says a pit bull deflated all four tires of a deputy’s cruiser near Hope Mills on Sunday. > > Spokeswoman Debbie Tanna says the deputy parked his car in a woman’s driveway while responding to her complaint about another dog. Good thing for those tires that there is no such thing a s pit bull. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/95 "2009-09-02T01:07:15Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > [http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/090901/K09019AU.htmlGood](http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/090901/K09019AU.htmlGood) thing for those tires that there is no such thing a s pit bull. I’d pay good money to have seen that. I wonder what the deputy was doing while all this was happening? He sounds like a very tolerant police officer and a credit to the force. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/96 "2009-09-02T02:25:28Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > [http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/090901/K09019AU.htmlGood](http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/090901/K09019AU.htmlGood) thing for those tires that there is no such thing a s pit bull. 😕 Your comment is a complete non-sequitor to that article. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/97 "2009-09-02T02:50:00Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > We’ve been over this time and again as well. No dogs jaws can “lock”. It is simply impossible. You are over-literalizing a commonly accepted phrase which describes what happens in dogs which are bred to hold on once they get hold of their adversary. This thread is annoying me. I hope the OP has found some of it helpful, I’m outta here. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/98 "2009-09-02T04:09:16Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > 😕 Your comment is a complete non-sequitor to that article. Try explaining that to the dog. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/99 "2009-09-02T06:33:48Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I’m sorry, but this is absurd. Teaching a child to be comfortable around dogs is important, just like teaching people how to swim is important. Teaching them how to defend themselves from an angry sabertooth tiger attack is just as important as teaching them how to deep sea dive at the age of 8. “I can’t teach my child to fend off a pack of angry boars, so I’m not even going to bother with cooking him bacon for breakfast. I can’t risk it.” That’s entertaining but you missed the meaning of my post. In the real world people are attacked by dogs, not saber tooth tigers. You CAN’T teach the kids how to defend themselves. That’s the point. This thread is about how an adult can deal with a viscous dog as it relates to children. It’s about a real dog that has shown aggression in the presence and under the control of its’ owner. There is nothing stopping the dog from jumping the fence and attacking someone. There is nothing you can teach a child that will stop an attack. The question is “does pepper spray work”. The answer is no. It can’t be depended on. If an attack occurs then an adult needs to use whatever is available as a weapon. A steak knife or a chair or anything that will bring the dog down long enough to get the child away. Better to think it through ahead of time. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/100 "2009-09-02T09:28:33Z")
pssst, magiver. it’s **vicious**. a **viscous** dog would just be very sticky and hard to get off your furniture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355.md?page=6)