# Neighbor has Pit Bulls - Does Pepper Spray Work? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355 "2009-08-31T14:41:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/101 "2009-09-02T09:45:17Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > pssst, magiver. it’s **vicious**. a **viscous** dog would just be very sticky and hard to get off your furniture. Nothing worse than getting mauled by a sticky dog. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/102 "2009-09-02T10:16:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Nothing worse than getting mauled by a sticky dog. The hair and spittle is bad enough! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/103 "2009-09-02T13:30:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Nothing worse than getting mauled by a sticky dog. I’ve known several goldens that would lick you nearly to death. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/104 "2009-09-02T14:24:59Z")
Talk to the neighbor and find out what she’s doing (she may be taking more precautions than you think if she’s already walking the dogs when no one else is likely to be around), tell the kids to get in the house if they ever see it running free. Otherwise, you can build a fence yourself. Unless the dog does something to someone, there’s not much else you can do unless you want to investigate your neighborhood by-laws yourself and see if you can find a way to force your neighbor to get rid of it. However, that’s kind of a scorched earth method of dealing with it, unless you want a pissed off neighbor on your ass every time you forget to mow your lawn for the foreseeable future. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/105 "2009-09-02T14:57:13Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > So are some actually contending that: > > 1. There is no true scientific basis for distinguishing one breed of dog from another. No. > [@](#): > > 1. As such, one cannot declare one “breed” more “dangerous” than another and that attempts to do so are scientifically unsound or contain some type of internal bias -intentional or otherwise. No. > [@](#): > > 1. By this logic, one should approach a “chihuahua” with the same level of apprehension as a “rottweiler”–assuming one is able to discern one from the other. [More apprehension, actually.](http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x4509906) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/106 "2009-09-02T16:03:37Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Why does a person need an 80 pound animal in a city or suburb when a 30 pound one does essentially the same thing and is less of a danger to themselves and neighbours. Or is there something useful a large dog does that a smaller one doesn’t? Never thought I’d see the typical anti-SUV argument being applied to animals. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/107 "2009-09-02T17:37:56Z")
It would be worth considering an offer to the neighbor to pay for a fully enclosed dog run if the dog climbs the fence. If the dog gets loose just once then the probability of it happening again are 100%. The likelihood of a confrontation goes up dramatically. When I found out my neighbor’s vicious dog could jump the fence I carried a weapon with me to/from the garage and while I was outside working on the lawn. The dog had already demonstrated that not only would it jump the fence it would go after me. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/108 "2009-09-02T18:22:50Z")
I don’t know how much you’ve been following your thread since it got hijacked but I thought I’d give you my thoughts after all the responses. Involve the authorities. Express the danger as to the whole neighborhood not just your kids alone. An experienced animal control officer can evaluate just how aggressive the dog is and under what conditions. Get first aid training, not only will the training prepare you mentally for the worse, if the unthinkable happens, you will need to render aid until help arrives. Think through what you will do. You’ll be better prepared and less likely to panic. Choose weapons. I think if an attack is in progress, pepper spray will be useless. Kitchen knives are too light, you would need a fighting knife like a K-Bar or Bowie. Even so, It’s to easy to lose your grip if you were to stab the dog and it turns, pulling the knife from your hand. I think your best bet is a short club of some type. 18 inches will be long enough to grip with both hands and short enough to control yet useable with one hand if needed. It needs to be heavy. You need to be able to strike a crippling blow on the first swing. I would aim for the backbone to break the spine (middle of back to the tail, the shoulder area might be too thick and it would be close to a mauling victim). This will also make it much harder for the dog to turn on you if the back legs are paralyzed. Suggestions: claw hammer(the claw can be used to rip) shortened,weighted baseball bat(might not be legal in your area), metal pipe, small size sledge. Secondary weapon could be a hatchet. Keep your choices in a small wastepaper basket by the door to the yard to save time. Get sandbags or old tires to practice on, you’ll need to learn to hit hard and fast with good control. Hope this helps and is never needed. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/109 "2009-09-02T18:41:44Z")
Thanks for writing. My husband saw Jennifer walking her dogs yesterday around dinner time, while the kids were out. He thought both dogs behaved just fine. ::sigh:: We do have a couple of sharp, short implements available in our garage. Those are excellent suggestions. As is the drill recommended earlier - I spoke to my kids about hitting the ground and covering their necks. We should practice it sometime. Just like a fire drill. I’m going to be very much on my guard. Interesting thing is, we have not one but two sheriff’s deputies in our neighborhood as well. One of them has a bomb-sniffing German shepherd, who lives in a special enclosure (fenced on all sides, including the roof). And I know that lots of people around here have guns - we’re far enough outside the city that they’re allowed to fire them on their own property (as long as they’re being reasonably sensible). Still - the thought of an animals teeth in my kid’s face is just staggering. Yeah, I’ve been watching this thread and shuddering a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/110 "2009-09-02T19:43:38Z")
I was in a training meeting yesterday, and oddly enough about 5 of the people there were from Animal Care and Control. I didn’t mention anything, but at one point, someone was lamenting some poor management decisions from outside the department - concerning the purchase of mace as a repellent against dogs. They all just kind of laughed about it because they said it just didn’t work (they were also upset about it, because they’re obviously in a position where they need useful tools in such situations). \*\*fessie \*\*- as a dog lover, I immediately come into a thread like this on the defensive. I don’t have a Pit, nor do I have a dog whose breed would be stereotyped as “aggressive”. However, I do have a dog that I see people overreact to on a daily basis because they are not comfortable around dogs. People who, when they see me coming from two blocks away, will cross the street to avoid us. Tilly is 40 lbs, and on walks wears a gentle leader - which is mistaken by these people as “a muzzle”. We now have two accounts in this thread about the demeanor of the dog in question. One of them characterizes the dog as “no doubt…a mean mofo”. The other account characterizes the dog as “just fine”. Both of them are the parents of your children. If the dog truly is aggressive, there’s a lot of good advice in this thread regarding that. However, there’s also a lot of advice in this thread on how to more accurately make that determination. I think you need to heed both sets of advice equally. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/111 "2009-09-02T20:03:00Z")
**fessie** , I really think you would be putting your children in more danger by leaving a container of pepper spray out for them to use to defend themselves should this dog escape its owner and venture down the street, get into your yard, and come after them. Not only is it highly unlikely that a child would be able use pepper spray in a crisis situation, it seems much more likely that someone is going to catch some pepper spray to the eye in accidental play. More simply, have you spoken to your neighbor, the owner of the dog about which you are concerned? My initial thought was that the dog may be a rescue that she’s just introduced to her home and he hasn’t settled down yet. Don’t just stew over what could possibly happen and get upset over some of the hysteria being posted in this thread. I’m sure people mean well, but all that’s happened is that the dog has snarled at you. This neighbor’s dogs have not gotten out of her yard, have not gotten off-leash. Your neighbor sounds quite responsible, and she seems like she’d be open to hearing your concerns. ---
**Author:** ![cordylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@cordylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cordylus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/112 "2009-09-02T20:06:02Z")
I think you’ve heard some good advice already. Our insurance company required a bunch of us to go to a seminar on dog attacks. In most cases attacks occur when a dog is already in close proximity and attacks unexpectedly. Marauding dog attacks are an order of magnitude less common. If you teach your kids to come inside calmly if they ever see a dog loose in the neighborhood you are reducing the odds of an attack considerably. You want to focus on prevention. Once an attack is under way there may not be a lot you can do to change the outcome. That’s not to say you shouldn’t try but it may not be enough. Serious injuries can happen in a split second. You should definitely talk to your neighbor. She would probably welcome the opportunity to address your concerns. If she is combative or dismissive of your concerns then you’ll know that she isn’t taking the situation seriously. Hopefully she can show you some of the precautions she is taking. Really any dog that gets loose could be a danger to your kids. Even a very well trained and polite dog in a stressful situation and unfamiliar place has the potential to attack. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/113 "2009-09-02T20:32:46Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > And the only thing worse than an attack by 2 pit bulls is an attack by 84 pit bulls. Or 4 cobras. Or 1 grizzly bear. Or 1,001 rabid squirrels. Or 2 drunk Irishmen. Or half a Chuck Norris. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/114 "2009-09-02T20:37:15Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Or half a Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris does not need to be present to attack. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/115 "2009-09-02T20:38:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’ve been around dogs enough to know that some species are more aggressive than others. I’m not going to debate this. Pit bulls fall into this category and it’s not just aggression that you have to worry about. The thing to worry about is what happens when they attack. Once that behavior is triggered the dog is NOT going to stop because of pepper spray. That would be like whacking a hornet’s nest. The only thing worse than an attack by a pit bull is an attack by 2 pit bulls. We had an incident in my city where 2 pit bulls killed a man. He tried to hide under a car while neighbors beat the dogs with baseball bats. The dogs didn’t stop. > > I worked with a woman whose husband got a pit bull. She mentioned that the dog growled at her if she got near the food dish. I suggested she get rid of it, which she did after the dog mauled her. Her arm was shredded and I mean shredded. If her kids weren’t there to beat the dog down it would have been more than her arm. > > Pepper spray might work for an adult who can sacrifice an arm while fumbling for it. If you don’t have the pepper spray in your pocket then it doesn’t exist. For a child playing in the yard a pit bull represents 15 stitches with each bite. By the time you hear the first scream the dog has already brought the child down and is going for the face and throat. > > Muffin suggested the best course of action. Get a dog. Specifically, get a Labrador Retriever. They are great dogs with kids and will fiercely defend them. They also have the body mass and jaw structure to take on a pit bull. A dog will be a better weapon than a gun. > > If a single dog attacks a child then the next best weapon is a gun, followed by a baseball bat followed by a T-handled ice pick. If it’s 2 dogs then the only weapon that will work is a gun. Like all weapons, you would need to know how to use them or they are worthless. > > If you are left with no weapon then the best defense against a dog is to feed it your forearm and then grasp/tear out the dogs throat. You can’t be squeamish about this. If you don’t think you have the strength for it (you really do) then drive your thumb into the dogs throat until it is forced to release in a gag reflex. Then kick the dog in the head until dead and then kick it some more. I’m not going to address the content of this thread other than to note that a Lab is probably the worst choice for a guard dog. You would be hard pressed to find a less aggressive or protective breed of dog. If you really want a big powerful dog that is going to be protective of your kids (but very gentle and loving) you would be well served by getting something from the [mastiff](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastiff) family. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/116 "2009-09-02T20:49:07Z")
Not to beat it to death, but I am still tripping off of Magiver’s initial post. You know what made it chilling? Shit, all of it, but one of the eerie parts was the total lack of exclamation marks! He talked about the brutal violence one would have to visit upon an attacking pit bull with utter calm. **shivers** ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/117 "2009-09-03T00:38:30Z")
Jeesh. Hows this, dog attacks are scary!!! I’ve had to defend myself against a charging dog while in a bike. All I could do was get off and put the bike between me and the dog. It hit the bike at full gate and basically stunned itself. Scared the hell out of me. I’ve also dealt with large dogs attacking smaller dogs. There is a way to pick them up that I could teach someone but I would not suggest that on the net. If the dog being attacked isn’t leashed then you become THAT dog’s target. Been there done that. You can look up pit bull attacks on the net and get everything from babies [sleeping peacefully on the dog](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1trl1FMUw)to something [nightmares](http://pit-bulls.christianfunfair.org/attacks.htm) are made of (warning graphic images of children who were attacked). There’s a [video](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8266084177723783638#) of a child attacked by a pit bull where an officer shoots the dog. It doesn’t look like much of an attack but the dog went for the child’s foot and didn’t let go (it also went for the child’s head). Even after it was shot it started back toward the officer. This looked more like dogs playing. It was not a particularly vicious attack but it shows the stubbornness of the dog. It also showed that the dog chased after anything that moved once it went into attack mode. It was a small dog yet the owner had no control over it. The odds of a random attack are really small. I based my comments on the op’s observation that she lives near a powerful dog with issues. That changes the odds dramatically. It doesn’t mean the kids are in immediate danger but it does mean that IF an attack occurs it’s a real problem. When assessing risk, you have to weigh the end result against the odds. If it was a miniature poodle then getting bit is not much of a risk of causing a wound with 200 stitches. It’s the difference between a firecracker which could take off a finger and an m-40 which could easily kill you. I would definitely suggest a fully enclosed dog run if the neighbor is open to suggestions. It would be for when the owner is not home and thus has no control over a dog that could easily jump a normal fence. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/118 "2009-09-03T03:02:04Z")
Y’know, I’ve never noticed Red in his fenced-in yard alone. Jennifer’s always been present to supervise. This past spring the kids approached Onyx while she was in the enclosure, under Jennifer’s supervision, and that was fine - and a teaching moment, of course. I talked to my husband some more and he didn’t see Red up close, it was at a distance. I shared your comments from here. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/119 "2009-09-03T04:16:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Jeesh. Hows this, dog attacks are scary!!! Better. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355/120 "2009-12-28T03:35:00Z")
Updates: 1. Red is no longer living with our neighbor Jennifer. And I suspect it’s because Jennifer has a New Man living in her house. I’d bet any thing Red was territorial exactly as described in this thread, and her man said “It’s me or the dog.” Kind of a mixed blessing, as New Man was observed peeing in the front yard recently, but hey, I don’t think he bites. 2. I have a new appreciation for the value of big dogs. My sister was robbed at gunpoint on Christmas Eve day as she was preparing to load gifts into their car. The thieves walked her to her apartment, gun to her head, and when her fiancee opened the door, her 80-lb Old English Bulldog charged them. Down the stairs they went. Fortunately neither she nor her fiancee (nor their dog) was injured. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbor-has-pit-bulls-does-pepper-spray-work/508355.md?page=7)