Strangers, neighbor’s lawns, homes, malls, parks and schools aren’t very likely to bite a child’s face off.
Here’s an idiotic analogy for you, since you seem partial to them; my advice to my child in dealing with an unknown dog is much the same as my advice in dealing with a chainsaw in the “ON” position; leave it the fuck alone. When the chainsaw’s owner is located, he or she will be warned to control their chainsaw and keep it where it can’t harm anyone, or I’ll switch it permanantly into the “OFF” position.
I’m sorry, but this is absurd. Teaching a child to be comfortable around dogs is important, just like teaching people how to swim is important. Teaching them how to defend themselves from an angry sabertooth tiger attack is just as important as teaching them how to deep sea dive at the age of 8. “I can’t teach my child to fend off a pack of angry boars, so I’m not even going to bother with cooking him bacon for breakfast. I can’t risk it.”
I have followed this thread with interest, but avoided posting. However, THIS post brought me out.
Why does a person need an 80 lb. dog?
REALLY?
Maybe I don’t need 2 80 lb Gordon Setters. Honestly? They’d be perfectly useless as protection dogs, I think, because they love EVERYBODY. They aren’t barkers. They certainly aren’t sled dogs. They couldn’t herd anything if their lives depended on it. So why do I NEED them? because I happen to LOVE them. I like having a big, goofy dog to hug. I also have 2 small dogs (Hey… why does anyone need 4 dogs???) but my heart lies with the Gordons.
My dogs aren’t a danger to me or to ANYONE. Just because they’re big doesn’t make them dangerous. I’ll take a big, gentle, well-trained dog ANY DAY over a 6 lb ankle biting Min Pin.
See… training is the key here. If a dog-ANY dog- is trained to respect humans, they are not a danger. Who are you to judge, to say no one ‘needs’ a big dog? I take huge offence to that.
As far as the Pit Bull debate… I see both sides of the coin. I have known some very sweet ‘Pits’ (I use the term as a blanket for many of the breeds lumped together as Pits) and I have known some not so nice. It is a combination of nature and nurture in my experience; Pits DO tend to be dog aggressive, it’s what they were bred for, and to me, that is a big turn off. I want my dogs to get along with all other creatures, human, canine, even feline. Yes, if I see a Pit running loose in the neighborhood, I am more concerned than if it’s a Lab or a Poodle. It might not be any more aggressive, but it it chooses to do so, It has the capability of doing mure damage.
I think Fossie is doing her children a disservice by teaching them to be afraid of dogs. Teach them respect, yes. Teach them to never approach a stray or loose dog. Teach them to ask the owner pemission to pet the dog first. Hell, even teach them dog body language, what to look for as a sign of agression. They are old enough to learn. But DON’T teach them fear.
That’s my 2 cents. I will continue to watch this thread with interest.
Here is what I have trained my children about dogs: If it is a strange dog, then you stay well the fuck away unless and until the owner has specifically told you that it is OK to approach and pet the dog.
If it is a strange dog and the owner is not with it, then you GET INSIDE THE HOUSE IMMEDIATELY.
I am not training my kids how to “stand firm” to an aggressive dog, because 1) that’s expecting too much of a 5-year-old child (my kids are 7, 5, and 2, although the 2-year-old doesn’t play outside alone, obviously), and 2) I prefer to teach them to be nowhere near the aggressive dog in the first place. They see an unattended dog outside, they run for the door. That’s the house rule, and they’re good at following it.
Edit in response to the above post: I don’t feel like this rule is teaching my kids to fear dogs. I am attempting to teach them a healthy respect for dogs, and since most of the dogs in this neighborhood outweigh even my 7-year-old, I think it’s just prudent to get the hell inside if there’s an off-leash unattended dog roaming around. Which does happen from time to time.
You love the dogs AFTER you bought them. Would you care if they were 30 pounds or 80? Are there 30 pound dogs that do exactly the same as your 80 pound ones do? If so, why do you have 80 pound ones? What benefit do you gain from them that they are larger?
If you’re 80 pound dog went wacko (for whatever reason) could you wrestle it to the ground? Do you expect a child to be able to?
Everyone who has a dog that just ripped the face off of some little kid says the exact, the EXACT, same thing about their dog. Amazing that. As I said, my minpin isn’t the most pleasant dog with strangers. She doesn’t trust them. She seems to love us. Partly that is the breed. They tend to be protective of their ‘pack’. Mostly because she was mistreated and teased as a puppy. But she is only 6 pounds and anything more than a feeble kick would send her running.
How about this then if it makes you happier. You don’t need ANY dogs. But as long as you are living in a society where others can get hurt because of your decisions, you should take efforts to minimize the effects of your choices. A smaller dog is easier to control by any party, not just the owner that ‘trained’ them (or neglected, kicked, terrorized, etc, them).
[Moderator Admonition]Take the debate about how gentle/deadly pitbulls/bigdogs are elsewhere. The OP is talking about how to defend self and children against a particular dog that acts agressively, in case it decides to attack. The next off-topic post is getting an official warning.[/Moderator Admonition]
There is very little she can do re-actively to stop the neighbors dog once it has gone nuts. It is a big and powerful dog. It takes a lot of strength and force to get a dog like that off of a person it is attacking.
As has been noted beating it over the head with a baseball bat might not even work. And if you aren’t the most athletic, you’re just as likely to miss the dog and hit the kid with the bat.
A gun isn’t an optimal solution. If you were Annie Oakley with it, you might be able to nail the dog and not the child. But, from my experience as a hunter, bullets tend to bounce when they hit bone. You wouldn’t like it if you nailed the dog and the bullet ricocheted into your kid.
A knife could work. You ever try sticking a knife into something jumping around like a dog? Do you have strong enough wrist and arm strength to plunge it far enough into the animal to do real damage. To do it multiple times? And not stab yourself or your kids at the same time?
And that is assuming you are there to do anything at all in a reasonable amount of time.
A far better solution is prevention.
Talk to the neighbor and voice your concerns. Make sure she understands the consequences if her dog(s) get loose and hurt someone. Both civil and criminal. Take note of her reaction. I’m sure juries would like to hear that you voiced your concerns and she didn’t take any actions to prevent the attack (actually, I’d tell her that if she gave you a hard time). Talk to the other neighbors and see if they have the same concerns. All of you approach her as a group.
If she still isn’t going to do anything, then you’ll have to. Put up a fence. Contact the authorities. Check the bylaws.
This is exactly what I was trying to convey - a healthy respect for dogs, apprehension in certain situations (I didn’t explicitly state this, clarifying now), and overall a respect for them.
As for Jettboy, the Pit is elsewhere. I won’t dignify your childish analogy.
For the same reason that you teach them to swim. It is simple survival information that everyone should have.
My parents taught me early to stay away from strange dogs, and to immediately get out of reach (calmly and slowly without running) of any dog whose tail wasn’t wagging. My daughter is only two and already she will not approach any dog unless I have my hand on its collar.
They are old enough to learn those lessons. Unfortunately, they already have the example of the friendly Houdini next door, and you will have to really press the issue to make them understand - if they see a dog they don’t know (actually, I’d go with ANY dog) wandering uncontrolled, (no matter how far away) they should slowly and calmly head indoors, bringing any little kids along. They should also group together, and move in a huddle.
Have drills, show them what you mean. Do it this way any time you are calling them in for a while. Make it a game - say “Dog Drill” to start the huddle and move process. If they come in on their own, give a prize to whoever spots the dog first. (This will help them learn situational awareness. Don’t let them giggle and hyperventilate; teach them to do it calmly and quietly.
In case the worst should happen, teach them that if a dog is coming toward them to attack, drop belly down in the fetal position and lace your hands around the back of your neck.
When they are a little taller and more powerful, teach them to deal with a dog attack by kicking the dog in the throat.
And ditto to everything MaGiver said. Including the fact that drunken Irishmen are probably more dangerous than other breeds. . . [Ducks and runs]
Oh, and if the worst should happen: on some dogs the jaw can “lock” and even the dog is incapable of opening it. The thing to do is to jam your thumb into the the soft meat directly behind and under the jaw hinge. This will force the jaw open. Do not try to pull the dog away fromt he victim until the jaw is open - that would only increase the tearing.
Strange how these lessons are coming back to me . . . I haven’t thought about them in ages. Having a Ranger for a Dad is useful! LOL!
I’d pay good money to have seen that. I wonder what the deputy was doing while all this was happening? He sounds like a very tolerant police officer and a credit to the force.
You are over-literalizing a commonly accepted phrase which describes what happens in dogs which are bred to hold on once they get hold of their adversary.
This thread is annoying me. I hope the OP has found some of it helpful, I’m outta here.
That’s entertaining but you missed the meaning of my post. In the real world people are attacked by dogs, not saber tooth tigers. You CAN’T teach the kids how to defend themselves. That’s the point.
This thread is about how an adult can deal with a viscous dog as it relates to children. It’s about a real dog that has shown aggression in the presence and under the control of its’ owner. There is nothing stopping the dog from jumping the fence and attacking someone. There is nothing you can teach a child that will stop an attack. The question is “does pepper spray work”. The answer is no. It can’t be depended on. If an attack occurs then an adult needs to use whatever is available as a weapon. A steak knife or a chair or anything that will bring the dog down long enough to get the child away. Better to think it through ahead of time.
Your comment is a complete non-sequitor to that article.