# Neighbors complain about wheelchair ramp in front of home. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 20, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682 "2013-08-20T01:32:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/221 "2013-08-23T18:26:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > …No need for Jesus to suck on anything but feel free to do give it a try yourself if you think it will work… [Well played.](http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz92/avrooml/SPN/EXCITEMENT/jux2ytjpg.gif) > [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > I’m stealing this for personal use. Hope that’s OK with you… Sure. Making up Jesus sayings is a hobby of mine. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/222 "2013-08-23T19:05:46Z")
Did a ramp murder Magiver’s parents or something? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/223 "2013-08-23T19:08:48Z")
I think they were crushed at the end of a ramp by a runaway 800 pound invalid in a gurney. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/224 "2013-08-23T21:04:22Z")
Either that or he works for a lift company on commission. > [@Magiver](#): > > well that went over your head. The reason buildings have elevators is because an elevator has utility value over stairs and people prefer this. Except in case of a fire – when they tell you to use the stairs. (I worked at the Carnegie Science Center, actually, and there were no stairs – just a big spiral ramp leading up to each floor.) ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/225 "2013-08-23T21:53:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > no, it’s not evenly remotely as ugly as a massive concrete ramp. A lift is almost invisible in comparison. You’re silly. The lift is, as others have said, truly HIDEOUS, especially in comparison with the ramp. Nearly invisible? No, it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/226 "2013-08-23T22:38:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > well that went over your head. The reason buildings have elevators is because an elevator has utility value over stairs and people prefer this. But unlike an elevator a wheelchair lift is designed to take into consideration power and mechanical failure. In this specific case that involves a lift of about 30 so the maximum distance that needs to be overcome by her parents is half the distance or 15 inches in the event of a mechanical failure. It didn’t go over my head at all - I think the engineering aspect of it went over yours. Many things have both (a) more utility and (b) more complexity than others. The point is that the more reliable, less complex option usually gets built first, as a backup measure in case the newfangled doohickey fails. _Then_ you install the fancy bits, but you still have the basic functionality even if the fancy bits shit the bed. You seem to be under the impression that the only possible failure is of power. What if it seizes and just won’t move? What if the freeze-thaw cycle in Colorado weakens the metal to the point that a critical piece breaks? What if corrosion from salted roads gums up the mechanics? What if windblown snow beneath the platform prevents it from going all the way down? What if it ices up and doesn’t move at all? None of these things is a problem with a ramp. The other thing that went over your head is that this family _chose_ the ramp. I suspect they might have a bit more experience than either of us with both choices, and I’m not going to second guess their decision. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/227 "2013-08-23T23:36:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Again, the lift has more utility value than the ramp. it allows for independent use and it compensates for the elements. I still don’t see how the lift is immune from weather. If it snows on the ramp it snows on the lift. Meanwhile, if she is in a mechanized wheelchair, she can use either on her own. Maybe the daughter prefers a ramp. If she cannot use her wheelchair without being pushed then the lift does not make her any more independent. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/228 "2013-08-23T23:47:40Z")
Somebody contact the family and ask whether a lift in addition to the ramp would make a difference. If so, we can divide up the cost and all pitch in to buy one. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/229 "2013-08-24T07:47:18Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > You’re silly. The lift is, as others have said, truly HIDEOUS, especially in comparison with the ramp. Nearly invisible? No, it’s not. How do you figure a lift that is 3 ft square with almost no visible parts is hideous compared to a 30 foot ramp made of concrete? The lifts come painted? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/230 "2013-08-24T07:50:18Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > I still don’t see how the lift is immune from weather. If it snows on the ramp it snows on the lift. Meanwhile, if she is in a mechanized wheelchair, she can use either on her own. Maybe the daughter prefers a ramp. If she cannot use her wheelchair without being pushed then the lift does not make her any more independent. A lift can be covered like you would cover an outdoor grill. You could also put heating elements into the ramp so that option is available. No idea of the cost but technically it should be pretty easy. Lots of people have heated driveways. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/231 "2013-08-24T07:54:44Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > It didn’t go over my head at all - I think the engineering aspect of it went over yours. Many things have both (a) more utility and (b) more complexity than others. The point is that the more reliable, less complex option usually gets built first, as a backup measure in case the newfangled doohickey fails. _Then_ you install the fancy bits, but you still have the basic functionality even if the fancy bits shit the bed. > > You seem to be under the impression that the only possible failure is of power. What if it seizes and just won’t move? What if the freeze-thaw cycle in Colorado weakens the metal to the point that a critical piece breaks? What if corrosion from salted roads gums up the mechanics? What if windblown snow beneath the platform prevents it from going all the way down? What if it ices up and doesn’t move at all? None of these things is a problem with a ramp. > > The other thing that went over your head is that this family _chose_ the ramp. I suspect they might have a bit more experience than either of us with both choices, and I’m not going to second guess their decision. what if one of her parents slips and breaks a hip. You can play what-ifs all you want but wheelchair lifts are not newfangled doohickeys. they’re specifically built for wheel chairs. If they break down you fix them just like you would fix a car or any other conveyance routinely used by the handicapped. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/232 "2013-08-24T08:30:44Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Jesus christ sucking on the vinegar sponge … \ Well done, sir! Very well, done! > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > … Making up Jesus sayings is a hobby of mine. A hobby you’ve obviously practiced at. 😃 > [@Enginerd](#): > > … > You seem to be under the impression that the only possible failure is of power. What if it seizes and just won’t move? What if the freeze-thaw cycle in Colorado weakens the metal to the point that a critical piece breaks? What if corrosion from salted roads gums up the mechanics? What if windblown snow beneath the platform prevents it from going all the way down? What if it ices up and doesn’t move at all? None of these things is a problem with a ramp. … **A+** Damn! Wished I had thought of all that. 😉 > [@Magiver](#): > > A lift can be covered like you would cover an outdoor grill. You could also put heating elements into the ramp … . Which would make it pretty difficult for a **handicapped person** to use. And those are things which would signifigantly **add to the cost** of a lift. > [@Magiver](#): > > what if one of her parents slips and breaks a hip. … If they break down you fix them just like you would fix a car or any other conveyance routinely used by the handicapped. Her parents can use the ramp, also. 😉 Again, an **added cost** to the price of a lift. A ramp won’t ‘break down’, which precludes the need for any ‘routine’ repairs. Magiver _ **ain’t** _ budging on this one, y’all. Yeah, yeah… I _ **know** _ I promised I wouldn’t say anything more on the subject! I just couldn’t resist, though. And NOW, I’m done. \ ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/233 "2013-08-24T10:37:44Z")
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think it’s a fine looking ramp. It appears top be safe, secure and well built. I seriously doubt it will bring down the property values in the neighborhood. As far as moving it somewhere else, I suppose the depends on the layout of the house- the driveway, the interior, etc. I could not build a wheelchair ramp at my front door because of the way the exterior entry and foyer is (are?) designed. Putting the access there would require about 5 different left and right turns in a small space to get to the living room. The only easy access would need to come through the garage. Fortunately, I don’t need a ramp, I just wanted one so that a wheelchair bound neighbor could visit. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/234 "2013-08-24T11:52:41Z")
Wouldn’t a lift be noisy for the neighbors? Especially late at night or early morning? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/235 "2013-08-24T12:06:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > no, it’s not evenly remotely as ugly as a massive concrete ramp. A lift is almost invisible in comparison. Whether lifts or ramps are uglier is strictly a matter of opinion and is going to vary from person to person. > [@](#): > > Really? a skilled technician? it has a motor and a drive unit. By that logic a garbage disposal requires a skilled technician. You’d be surprised how many people can’t manage simple repairs. Yes, a lot of people really do need to hire someone to fix anything with a motor. Parents caring for a disabled child likely don’t have the time or energy to learn yet another new skill. > [@](#): > > That’s if it breaks. The ramp WILL require someone to maintain it’s surface in inclement weather on a regular basis. Lifts WILL break, sooner or later. They are motor-driven and contain moving mechanical parts. A ramp, on the other hand, requires no more “surface maintenance” than sidewalks and driveways, which have to be done anyway in inclement weather and I suspect one reason for choosing concrete is to allow the parents to use the exact same “maintenance” on the ramp as on the driveway as a way of simplifying things. > [@](#): > > well we’re talking about a specific case but the advantages are ease of use and safety. It has all the complexity of a garage door opener with battery backup. Several years ago I spent much of a summer helping to repair garage doors and openers – again, you’d probably be surprised at how many people can’t do that without outside assistance. Perhaps the parents choose a concrete ramp because taking care of/managing a concrete ramp is already within their skillset. > [@](#): > > If she has control of her wheel chair then it allows her to independently enter and exit the house which adds to her personal safety in the event of a fire. If she has a motorized wheelchair she can get up and down the ramp without assistance as well. As a bonus, if her motorized wheelchair did break down it wouldn’t leave her stranded in the air. > [@Magiver](#): > > Not really. As I pointed out there are electrical and mechanical backups to lifts. All of which have to be maintained and periodically fixed. It’s no timesaver. > [@](#): > > Ramps are a PITA every single time they are used and that’s on a good day. If you have to shovel it off and salt it (actually salt will break down the concrete) then it’s very time consuming and dangerous if it’s not completed properly. Their daughter now has to wait until the process is finished. So? Elderly people have to wait “until the process is finished”. My spouse isn’t even in a wheelchair but has to wait inside until I finish shoveling between the door and our vehicles to go anywhere in winter. Being disabled is inconvenient no matter how you slice it, travel is never as easy and care free as when you’re able-bodied, and it’s not a matter of avoiding all inconvenience but choosing which ones you’ll put up with. If you’ve got a walk-clearing routine it’s actually not that time consuming, and better yet, the supplies are available at any and every big-box store. It’s also a heck of a lot easier to hire someone to clear your walk in winter than service your wheelchair lift. By the way – even if they do have a lift they’ll still need to get their porch/walk/driveway cleaned off so they’ll be dealing with that _anyway_, extending the process to a few additional square feet of ramp is trivial. > [@](#): > > Even if a lift breaks it would take less time to pump it up than to shovel and salt the ramp. And who, exactly, is going to be using the hand pump? The disabled person? Aging parents? It’s not about what YOU will find most convenient, it’s about what works for them. > [@Magiver](#): > > Do you think the world is full of disabled people stuck in chair lifts? No, but I think that’s largely because I see wheelchair ramps installed, not lifts. > [@](#): > > If their daughter can operate a motorized wheelchair then this extends her radius of freedom. If their daughter has a motorized wheelchair she can get up and down the ramp on her own. I’ve pushed quite a few wheelchairs up and down ramps in my time. With a _well designed_ ramp it’s not an issue for a person of normal strength to do this. Even outside, if the ramp is at the proper slant even a little rain or snow isn’t an insurmountable problem, the surfaces don’t have to be pristine for this to work out. If you found pushing a wheelchair up a ramp a trial I have to ask if the person you were pushing was hugely bigger than yourself, or if the incline was too steep. > [@Magiver](#): > > Again, the lift has more utility value than the ramp. it allows for independent use and it compensates for the elements. Why do you assume the daughter is incapable of independently using the ramp? Just because she has cerebral palsy doesn’t mean she’s completely helpless even if she can’t walk. > [@](#): > > If they didn’t have utility value nobody would buy them. If they’re so superior why don’t all disabled people have them? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/236 "2013-08-24T13:10:52Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Wouldn’t a lift be noisy for the neighbors? Especially late at night or early morning? NO. A lift would be 100% AWESOME. Everyone should have a lift. Even if they are not disabled. Ramps are like Darth Vader and lifts are like Luke Skywalker except less whiny. THERE ARE ZERO NEGATIVES TO HAVING A LIFT. EVERYONE KNOWS THIS. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/237 "2013-08-24T13:38:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Well, I’m clearly on the losing side of this issue. 😉 > > I just don’t see the harm in expecting anything built on property to look as nice as possible. People generally don’t build plain, square concrete block houses. We pay architects a lot of money to design unique homes. Homebuyers expect stone or brick veneer to be added. Or they even clad the outside in painted wood or vinyl. Something to give the home warmth and curb appeal. > > A residential ramp can be fully functional and convenient while still looking good. The railings could have been a nice wrought iron. Shrubby in front. This is a brand new house that probably cost 200k to 350k. Spending a few hundred extra bucks on the ramp isn’t unreasonable. In part because people have different aesthetic taste. I like clean lines and function - so I find that wheelchair ramp to be very attractive. I’m not terribly fond of a lot of detail or scrollwork. Nice wrought iron, imo, would have looked incredibly tacky. On the other hand, my late grandmother very likely would have painted it gold and made sure it was adequately covered with “lawn art” before she was satisfied with it. Once the garden in front of the ramp grows a little, it should be more “acceptable” to someone who doesn’t have my taste in wheelchair ramps. Also, because the important thing when building a wheelchair ramp is that you get the function. It MUST be sturdy. It MUST be long and gentle enough to be safe. It MUST hold up to the weather. By the time you get those things done, its an expensive proposition - and most people with kids in wheelchairs already have a lot of extraordinary expenses. (By the way, when buying the lift, don’t forget to factor in maintenance into the cost comparison, machinery must be maintained - concrete last for years with pretty much zero maintenance.) ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/238 "2013-08-24T14:14:37Z")
I’ve got the same problem in my neighborhood. Everyone has like three to five of these pug-fuggly concrete and brick horizontal monstrosities infront of their house. The first couple are usually kind of small, not much more then a foot in depth really, but the top one is WAY bigger. I hate to think what it does to property values when a buyer sees that the whole neighborhood is filled with invalids who can’t jump a mere three feet or so into their front door, or an open window. You know, garbage trucks will reach out with a metal claw, grab a can, lift up the garbage and toss it back into the pile. Why can’t people use something like that? Put a trap door in the roof of their house to get dumped into and their good. It’s not like it’s newfangled technology, garbage trucks have been using it for years. And seeing how **I** think it’s a better solution there’s no excuse not to do it that way. > [@Ca3799](#): > > I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think it’s a fine looking ramp. It appears top be safe, secure and well built. I seriously doubt it will bring down the property values in the neighborhood. Yeah, I thought it looked fine. It looks like they have some stuff planted in front of it but it hasn’t had time to grow yet. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/239 "2013-08-24T14:40:33Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > NO. A lift would be 100% AWESOME. Everyone should have a lift. Even if they are not disabled. Ramps are like Darth Vader and lifts are like Luke Skywalker except less whiny. THERE ARE ZERO NEGATIVES TO HAVING A LIFT. EVERYONE KNOWS THIS. This why I will never stop worshipping you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/240 "2013-08-24T15:31:36Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > I’ve got the same problem in my neighborhood. Everyone has like three to five of these pug-fuggly concrete and brick horizontal monstrosities infront of their house. The first couple are usually kind of small, not much more then a foot in depth really, but the top one is WAY bigger. > I hate to think what it does to property values when a buyer sees that the whole neighborhood is filled with **invalids who can’t jump a mere three feet or so into their front door, or an open window.** … My bold. Hey! Jumping three feet in the air flat-footed is hard! I’ll bet some of them could jump three feet if you gave them a running start…oh, wait… :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682.md?page=13)