# Neighbors complain about wheelchair ramp in front of home. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 20, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682 "2013-08-20T01:32:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/261 "2013-08-24T21:51:45Z")
Dude, do you even lift? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/262 "2013-08-24T21:54:59Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Dude, do you even lift? That’s it. You’re done. (Wrong thread?) (I’m dying here. Too funny) ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/263 "2013-08-24T22:14:53Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Dude, do you even lift? Does stair-steppin’ count? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/264 "2013-08-24T23:21:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Oddly, I never suggested you get a lift. Or a ramp, Or do anything for that matter. If you don’t like my opinion that’s too fucking bad. I think your behavior here is boorish and uncalled for. Somebody’s behavior has been boorish – but it ain’t **Ambivalid** ’s. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/265 "2013-08-24T23:39:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > you’d be surprised how many people can’t manage to shovel their walk. Many of them are handicapped. Most lawn services are happy to shovel your walk in winter, seeing as there are so few lawns to mow. As I said, far easier to hire someone to do your walk than to maintain your wheelchair lift. > [@](#): > > And she has her parents as care givers. Are the handicapped supposed to do without mechanical devices because they might break? She could be stuck on a sidewalk somewhere. Um… you know, we don’t actually know the capability of this kid, do we? Can she manage a manual wheelchair? Does she have a motorized one? Can she use a cellphone to call for help? You automatically go to the gizmo. That’s not inherently bad, but it can add expense and complexity. I don’t have a problem with this girl’s family making their own choices and frankly wheelchair ramps don’t bother me a bit. > [@](#): > > In the case of the lift, it’s a very low height. Getting “stuck” is like getting stuck on one step of a stairway. It’s not a mineshaft. I’ll let those in this thread actually in wheelchairs tell you about the sort of obstacle even one step is. > [@](#): > > So nothing, the ramp adds 30 feet of snow removal and deicing. You can’t had wave that away as not inconvenient. Maybe dad has a snowblower (or mom). Maybe they hire someone to take care of it. As others have pointed out, a lift would require snow removal, too. > [@](#): > > The vast majority of ramps are made of wood because of cost and the ability to remove it when selling the house. Why do you assume they intend to sell the house? I realize real estate flipping is quite trendy, but after modifying a house for the needs of a disabled person the family might be intending to live there for decades, possibly setting things up for their daughter to live there the rest of her life if possible. If that is the case then a concrete ramp makes a great deal of sense. > [@](#): > > A good analogy of their purchase would be the construction of manual wheel chair out of titanium and other expensive materials verus purchasing a motorized one for the same money. The motorized one has more utility value. I don’t understand why this is so hard to understand. I don’t think you understand that meeting the needs of the disabled is a one-size-fits-all situation. For someone with normal upper body function or a disabled athlete the lightweight titanium manual wheelchair might well be the better choice. For a quadriplegic a quality motorized chair is likely more useful. > [@](#): > > well that would depend on her level of coordination. She has a neurological disease. No, she has a neurological _condition_, which is presumably stable. So does my spouse for that matter even if he doesn’t need a wheelchair. Don’t make assumptions based on a two word diagnosis where the range of ability/disability is absolutely enormous. > [@](#): > > Most ramps are made of wood due to cost and the ability to remove them. Permanent ramps lower the value of houses because fewer people want them and they can’t easily be removed. A consideration that’s irrelevant if you aren’t intending to move for decades. > [@](#): > > I simply pointed out that in THIS instances they spent a great deal of money on a ramp that could have gone toward something with greater utility value. So far the argument against a lift has been that the handicapped shouldn’t use modern conveniences because they might break down. Your assumption is that a lift would be better, but you don’t know this girl’s capabilities or wishes in the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/266 "2013-08-24T23:40:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Really? You don’t see the value of an elevator over stairs? For me, stairs have greater utility as a source of exercise. You don’t see the value of stairs over elevators? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/267 "2013-08-25T00:23:35Z")
This whole elevator/stairs thing is crap. A lift isn’t an elevator, and a ramp isn’t stairs. There isn’t a single commercial building in the world that, for a rise of 4-6 stairs would replace their ramp with a lift. Assuming, of course, that they had room for a ramp to begin with. I go to commercial and public buildings all the time, ramps are everywhere. Lifts… Nowhere. Ramps are the Ronco Rotisserie way to get wheelchair accessibility, set it, and forget it. No business is going to replace something that easy to manage with a fucking lift. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/268 "2013-08-25T04:44:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > For me, stairs have greater utility as a source of exercise. You don’t see the value of stairs over elevators? No elevators for you. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/269 "2013-08-25T04:58:36Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > it’s not a radical idea to post an opinion, and maybe a followup or two. But you’ve turned this thread from someone else’s thread asking about a wheelchair ramp in front of a house to your own wheelchair lift evangelizing thread. You’re really fixated on this. If I defend an opinion it’s because someone has challenged it. How is that all on me exactly? I’ve never once stated that lifts were the end-all answer to anything. Not once. I simply said the money spent on the ramp in question was substantial enough that a lift could have been purchased which added an additional level of utility. If lifts didn’t offer something extra for the money there wouldn’t exist. What has been said in response is more in line with what you’re accusing me of and that’s the evangelization of ramps. So far we have T-shirts and aircraft carrier ramps on back order and a possible band name involving Jesus and a sponge dipped in vinegar. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/270 "2013-08-25T05:08:58Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This whole elevator/stairs thing is crap. A lift isn’t an elevator, and a ramp isn’t stairs. There isn’t a single commercial building in the world that, for a rise of 4-6 stairs would replace their ramp with a lift. Assuming, of course, that they had room for a ramp to begin with. > > I go to commercial and public buildings all the time, ramps are everywhere. Lifts… Nowhere. > > Ramps are the Ronco Rotisserie way to get wheelchair accessibility, set it, and forget it. No business is going to replace something that easy to manage with a fucking lift. really? That’s interesting because when I google [wheel chair lifts in commercial buildings](https://www.google.com/search?q=wheel+chair+lifts+in+commercial+buildings&client=firefox-a&hs=6J9&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=2Y8ZUoSoM6v82gWUx4DwDQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1138&bih=500) I find all kinds of examples. Why is that Cheesesteak? Could it be that a ramp requires 1 foot for every inch of lift and there isn’t always the space available? ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/271 "2013-08-25T05:21:35Z")
I thought the thread was about how it looked to the neighbors? Get rid of the ramp in front? Lifts are better? Look better? What is a better value as defined by me? Ask the person who is paying, using, & is handicapped / challenged? ( What a concept. ) Much ado about nothing IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/272 "2013-08-25T05:36:04Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > I thought the thread was about how it looked to the neighbors? > Get rid of the ramp in front? > Lifts are better? Look better? > What is a better value as defined by me? > > Ask the person who is paying, using, & is handicapped / challenged? ( What a concept. ) > > Much ado about nothing IMO. I agree. But the mere mention of a lift has evolved into a pile-on. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/273 "2013-08-25T05:59:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > …So far we have T-shirts and aircraft carrier ramps on back order and a possible band name involving Jesus and a sponge dipped in vinegar. Teeeee shirts. [Get yer t-shirts heah!](http://www.lookhuman.com/render/product/4773/4773882200068188/2001whi-w800h800z1-9920-bro-do-you-even-lift-jesus-edition.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/274 "2013-08-25T10:26:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Why is that Cheesesteak? Could it be that a ramp requires 1 foot for every inch of lift and there isn’t always the space available? Yes, as a matter of fact, I would assume that’s why. That is root of my “assuming, of course, that hey have room for a ramp” statement. What I’m not assuming is that the ramps offer “more utility” or that they are, in any way other than space required, the preferred solution for wheelchair access. If they were, you would see a lot more of them. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/275 "2013-08-25T15:05:07Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Yes, as a matter of fact, I would assume that’s why. That is root of my “assuming, of course, that hey have room for a ramp” statement. > > What I’m not assuming is that the ramps offer “more utility” or that they are, in any way other than space required, the preferred solution for wheelchair access. If they were, you would see a lot more of them. I disagree. You won’t see more of them because it’s cheaper to build a wooden ramp. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/276 "2013-08-25T15:07:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I agree. But the mere mention of a lift has evolved into a pile-on. Bless your heart. You have truly been maligned here. I recommend you ramp up your defense and that will surely lift your spirits. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/277 "2013-08-25T16:37:13Z")
I’ve become a little confused. What more “utility” is offered by a wheelchair lift over a ramp for a private residence? Is “utility” the same as “ease of use when it’s functioning properly” and /or “is less offensive in an aesthetic sense” or are there other things to consider? Personally, I like elegance in engineering. I don’t necessarily insist on it, but I do appreciate it. And isn’t a wheelchair ramp an application to one of the most basic of tools, the wedge? I think that’s sort of elegant. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/278 "2013-08-25T16:58:21Z")
Ramps vs. lifts is a silly argument, they both have their place. Commercially you will see more ramps as lifts can break down, which makes them non usable whereas a ramp can’t break. In addition the latest ADA limits the use of ramps from the previous editions. And typically in commercial applications you design to have no ramps at all or minimal steps so ramps will suffice. But sometimes due to site constraints or existing elements you have to use a lift and that is the right solution. Also I find exterior lifts to be much more problematic than inside lifts. The ramp in question is ugly I agree but it is functional. It serves its purpose and meets the requirements of the ADA which is all that truly matters. Could they have built a nicer ramp for the same expenditure of dollars, probably but it doesn’t really matter. A couple of my neighbors down the road have a ugly fence – they could have built a much nicer fence for the same amount of money in my opinion. The only property value that is impacted seems to be the house where the ramp is. Is anyone honestly arguing that a neighbor having a ramp is truly bringing the neighborhood property values down? I would find that highly unlikely, no more than an ugly fence, or odd paint or any number of unpleasant things neighbors do. I would need to see some cite that proves that an ugly ramp decreases the neighborhood property values. My wife has MS and at some point I will need to put a ramp in, but I will design one that meets my and her needs–fuck the neighbors! Now I know my ramp will be aesthetically perfect because it needs to be for me to live with it. But my neighbors will have little impact on my thought process. I am certain they will like the ramp but it really doesn’t concern me if they do or don’t. My opinion this is really a situation looking for a story. The neighbors will look like fools if they pursue this in my opinion as the ADA is very clear on accommodation requirements. Even if the HOA had some say in this, I am fairly certain a federal law would trump it, but that is why we have lawyers right. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/279 "2013-08-25T17:27:30Z")
Oh God! Don’t get the lawyers into this. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682/280 "2013-08-25T17:48:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > But the mere mention of a lift has evolved into a pile-on. Poor baby. It’s totally not any of _your_ fault. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neighbors-complain-about-wheelchair-ramp-in-front-of-home/666682.md?page=15)