# Neil Degrasse Tyson accused of assaulting women **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400 "2018-12-01T16:14:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/61 "2018-12-05T16:56:33Z")
What’s interesting to me is how sometimes people can not realize the power dynamic. I know, because it happened to me. I made what I thought was an innocuous but flirty comment to a coworker once, but she happened to be several years younger and an office assistant. She got creeped out, and let me know it, and told me to leave her alone, which I did. I realize after the fact the power dynamic at play and know the situation was inappropriate, and I’m sorry for how I behaved. I’m sure if I ever became noteworthy, someone could drag up this and a couple other clumsy flirting attempts from my past (in college) to paint me as a serial predator, when that’s the furthest from the truth. The Patheos article that triggered the article in the OP: [Nonreligious Questions](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/2018/11/two-more-women-accuse-neil-degrasse-tyson-of-sexual-misconduct/) > [@Quartz](#): > > According to the article, he was first accused of rape in [2014](https://tchiya.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/end-the-silence-end-the-violence-chapter-6-austin-texas-1983-1984-the-blue-lotus-speaks/). We’re 4 years on. Was there an investigation by police? If so, what did they find? The accusation was made in 2014, but the incident is alleged to have occurred in 1984/85. No police report or investigation, as the claimant only recently decided to come forward. I don’t know that she has contacted any authorities on this matter, just that she decided to blog about it. > [@BigT](#): > > The oldest incident I know little about. All I know is that it did not seem important enough before. I do note that all Tyson brought up was how she was into woo and how they’d been in a relationship that didn’t work out. The defense there seems lacking, but that could also be because it’s older and seems to be regarded as less credible by the public. Here is the [blog post](https://tchiya.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/end-the-silence-end-the-violence-chapter-6-austin-texas-1983-1984-the-blue-lotus-speaks/). It is somewhat lengthy before it gets to the accusation. I found all the typos and weird woo stuff to be personally off-putting, so I’m trying to distance that from the accusation itself. Her description of what happened is very vague, as she says she was drugged and passed out, awoke once during the assault, then passed out again. Unfortunately, that is characteristic of being drugged, but makes it hard to assess. The defense seems lacking because the accusation is incredibly vague. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Here are the things I want to know: > -Are there male co-workers who can vouch for being invited back to his room for wine and cheese at night-time, as he suggests he does? > -Do these male co-workers agree that when he gets home he takes off his shirt, dressed only in his undershirt? that he turns on “romantic music”? > -Is there a Native American elder who can vouch for having taught this handshake to Tyson? > -Are there other co-workers who have received this handshake from him? > > His claims are that his behaviors were innocuous and routine and not intended to be seduction. If that’s the case, then there should be folks in whom he’d show no sexual interest (presumably men) who experienced identical or similar behaviors from him. > > The fewer of these behaviors that are replicated, the more suspicious it all looks. These are good questions. > [@muldoonthief](#): > > Yeah, I don’t need to know any of those things. It’s apparent from the Jules/Vincent foot massage test that he’s never invited a solitary male colleague to his apartment for wine & cheese. Followed by a special Native American handshake. He was trying to sleep with her, pure & simple. I don’t know what the Jules/Vincent foot massage test is. > [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I’m a guy and if another guy invited me over for wine and cheese I would assume he’s gay and wants to be romantic. Beer and pizza would be what I would expect from another guy. That seems a bit… classist? Like “real men” aren’t in to wine and cheese, except to impress women. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/62 "2018-12-05T16:58:07Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > While I agree I also believe that heroes are important because their example can push us to doing things we might not otherwise do. We are all human and we all err. When in doubt, err on the side of not raping. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/63 "2018-12-05T17:08:32Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > The accusation was made in 2014, but the incident is alleged to have occurred in 1984/85. No police report or investigation, as the claimant only recently decided to come forward. I don’t know that she has contacted any authorities on this matter, just that she decided to blog about it. Here’s some more detail: Allegedly(?), [Tchiya Amet confronted Tyson](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/neil-degrasse-tyson-rape-accuser_us_5c057f3ae4b0cd916faed7f8) about the 1984 alleged rape at a 2010 panel the physicist was hosting. > [@](#): > > Her mic cut out before she had finished accusing Neil deGrasse Tyson of sexual assault, but Tchiya Amet El Maat went on anyway, talking loudly enough that even people in the back of the theater got the message. “I don’t know how I did that,” Amet, now a natural health therapist and wellness coach, told HuffPost recently. “I have a very soft voice.” > > It was April 21, 2010. Tyson was doing a Q&A segment at a NOVA scienceNOW Cosmic Conversation event at San Francisco’s Palace of Fine Arts Theatre. There, in front of a live audience, with “NOVA” executive producer Paula Apsell watching, Amet confronted the famous astrophysicist. > > “I’m here in honor of all the people that you raped, assaulted, harassed, violated, denied,” she said, “and for the lives that you affected and for the lives of their parents and their friends and everyone that was involved when you were a TA in grad school at UT Austin in 1984 ― including myself.” > > To our knowledge, the incident received no media attention. Amet could’ve sworn the event was taped, but no broadcast exists. “NOVA” “doesn’t have recorded footage of that event,” a representative of Roslan & Campion PR firm said. As far as anyone not in the theater that day was concerned, the first public accusation of sexual misconduct against Neil deGrasse Tyson simply never happened. It wasn’t until 2014, however, that Amet (a) blogged about the alleged rape, and (b) filed a police report. This is also covered in the link above (Huffington Post, if that means anything). ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/64 "2018-12-05T17:19:55Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I don’t know what the Jules/Vincent foot massage test is. Refers to [this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD1CNqghN7Q) from the film Pulp Fiction. Basically, the original question is “_How intimate is a given action between two people?_” The characters Jules and Vincent disagree about how intimate a foot massage is. Jules tells Vincent a foot massage is not necessarily sexual, and that he’s given his mother foot massages. Vincent wins the debate by complaining of aching feet and asking Jules to give HIM a foot massage. Jules is reduced to spitting out an annoyed “_Eff you!_”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/65 "2018-12-06T13:41:44Z")
Another one: [Neil DeGrasse Tyson Accused Of Sexual Misconduct By Four Women](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/azeenghorayshi/neil-degrasse-tyson-sexual-allegations-four-women) > [@](#): > > Now a fourth woman has told BuzzFeed News her experience of sexual harassment from Tyson. In January 2010, she recalled, she joined her then-boyfriend at a holiday party for employees of the American Museum of Natural History. Tyson, its most famous employee, drunkenly approached her, she said, making sexual jokes and propositioning her to join him alone in his office. In a 2014 email shared with BuzzFeed News, she described the incident to her own employer in order to shoot down a proposed collaboration with Tyson. Gross. He needs to own up to it. Admit that he used his power and privilege to try and obtain sexual benefits, and that it was wrong and he harmed many women that he worked with or near. I’m still hopeful that some of these (hopefully former) harassers might actually recognize (eventually) how wrong their actions were, and try to use their power and privilege on the right side of this issue going forward. Not sure if it’s happened yet. Maybe the “best” high-profile apology so far was from Louis CK, at least by my memory, and it still left a lot to be desired, IMO. And (based on what I read online about his recent appearances at comedy clubs) he appears to be trying to come back without having done anything to make it right for his victims. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/66 "2018-12-06T14:16:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Goddammit. That sums it up for me as well. > [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > Or perhaps to put it another way: > > “How dare those whiny, disloyal ginches tarnish the good works of a fine, upstanding man of science, a visionary, learned man of letters who is out there Fighting The Good Fight, with trifling tales of two-bit harassment?” > > “Don’t they know how to be Team Players? He is one of ours, damn it!” > > That attitude got Bill Clinton (for one) a free pass for too many years, and there were plenty on the other side of the political spectrum who would have said the same thing about scumbags like Jimmy Swaggart." If by “another way” you mean “a way that has nothing to do with the first way” then yes, that is another way of putting it. Nobody is saying that NDT should get a pass on sexual harassment just because he’s on the right side of the climate change debate. > [@msmith537](#): > > When in doubt, err on the side of not raping. What if I like beer? Like, a lot? Does that change anything? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/67 "2018-12-06T14:41:40Z")
**[Moderating]** Let’s keep politics out of this, please. That goes for **Ashtura** , **Royal Nonesuch** , and **Gyrate** , as well as anyone else I might have missed. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/68 "2018-12-06T15:17:31Z")
Maybe I overreact to this stuff but I sometimes worried by just talking to women at work they would think I was hitting on them if I was just making small talk and not talking about work. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/69 "2018-12-06T15:19:30Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Maybe I overreact to this stuff but I sometimes worried by just talking to women at work they would think I was hitting on them if I was just making small talk and not talking about work. :rolleyes: If you are worried you may give offence, don’t make small talk or make any conversation about topics not related to work. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/70 "2018-12-06T15:24:29Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Maybe I overreact to this stuff but I sometimes worried by just talking to women at work they would think I was hitting on them if I was just making small talk and not talking about work. I wonder that as well. How are they to know if I’m just making casual conversation or if I’m wanting more? If I see a guy at the elevator, I can ask him about the weather, what he’s working on, what vacation plans he has, etc. and there’s no confusion about if I’m trying to hit on him. There’s no issue that I’m making small talk with him even though I’m 30 years older than he is. But a woman always has to be on guard wondering if that “hi” is just a greeting or the beginning of a come on. I’m not worried about being accused of anything, but I’ve generally refrained from starting conversations like that with women because I don’t want them to have to worry about what my intentions are. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/71 "2018-12-06T15:31:47Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Maybe I overreact to this stuff but I sometimes worried by just talking to women at work they would think I was hitting on them if I was just making small talk and not talking about work. > [@filmore](#): > > I wonder that as well. How are they to know if I’m just making casual conversation or if I’m wanting more? If I see a guy at the elevator, I can ask him about the weather, what he’s working on, what vacation plans he has, etc. and there’s no confusion about if I’m trying to hit on him. There’s no issue that I’m making small talk with him even though I’m 30 years older than he is. But a woman always has to be on guard wondering if that “hi” is just a greeting or the beginning of a come on. I’m not worried about being accused of anything, but I’ve generally refrained from starting conversations like that with women because I don’t want them to have to worry about what my intentions are. There’s nothing to worry about, as long as you don’t talk about anything intimate or appearance related. You can talk about the weather, or sports, or work-related stuff, or movies/TV/literature (as long as you’re not talking about sex or who you’re attracted to on screen), and much more. Just use common sense, don’t say things that might easily be misinterpreted, and if you make a mistake, just apologize for it and back off. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/72 "2018-12-06T15:33:04Z")
I should add that every year I take an online class at work about sexual harassment so that makes me more aware of the topic. I believe a lot of places now have those classes. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/73 "2018-12-06T15:43:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s nothing to worry about, as long as you don’t talk about anything intimate or appearance related. You can talk about the weather, or sports, or work-related stuff, or movies/TV/literature (as long as you’re not talking about sex or who you’re attracted to on screen), and much more. Just use common sense, don’t say things that might easily be misinterpreted, and if you make a mistake, just apologize for it and back off. Even if the conversation is totally non-sexual, there’s always the possibility of misunderstanding of why I may be talking to her in the first place. Asking about work, the weekend, TV shows, etc. can be both random small talk and also be trying to lay the groundwork for more indepth conversations as part of a come on. She may be wondering as to my motivations for talking to her in the first place. It’s not like I’m making inappropriate comments like she has a nice haircut and stuff like that. Another example might be waiting in a long line. I can chat with another guy about how the line is so long, it’s going so slow, etc. and neither of us is thinking that the other is trying to hook up. But a woman always has to wonder what the guy’s intentions are. She has to worry that if she’s too nice, the guy might take that as an invitation and become a creepy stalker. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/74 "2018-12-06T15:48:17Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Even if the conversation is totally non-sexual, there’s always the possibility of misunderstanding of why I may be talking to her in the first place. Asking about work, the weekend, TV shows, etc. can be both random small talk and also be trying to lay the groundwork for more indepth conversations as part of a come on. She may be wondering as to my motivations for talking to her in the first place. It’s not like I’m making inappropriate comments like she has a nice haircut and stuff like that. > > Another example might be waiting in a long line. I can chat with another guy about how the line is so long, it’s going so slow, etc. and neither of us is thinking that the other is trying to hook up. But a woman always has to wonder what the guy’s intentions are. She has to worry that if she’s too nice, the guy might take that as an invitation and become a creepy stalker. Yes, people wonder about things. That’s always going to happen. It’s not a big deal if people wonder about things, as long as the behavior doesn’t cross any lines of inappropriateness. If she wonders “is this guy interested in me?”, and all you do is say “good morning” and sometimes talk about the weather, then you haven’t done anything wrong. And neither has she. It’s okay to wonder, or to have others wonder, as long as the behavior remains appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/75 "2018-12-06T15:59:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Another accuser, a former assistant to deGrasse Tyson named Ashley Watson, said that the astrophysicist attempted to persuade her into having sexual intercourse with him, made inappropriate comments \*\*and kept a list of what he deemed “overweight actresses” on his phone. \*\* [bolding mine] That disturbs me almost as much as the accusations of sexual misconduct. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/76 "2018-12-06T16:01:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes, people wonder about things. That’s always going to happen. It’s not a big deal if people wonder about things, as long as the behavior doesn’t cross any lines of inappropriateness. If she wonders “is this guy interested in me?”, and all you do is say “good morning” and sometimes talk about the weather, then you haven’t done anything wrong. And neither has she. It’s okay to wonder, or to have others wonder, as long as the behavior remains appropriate. My point is that unless there’s some compelling reason for me to talk to her, there’s no need for me to initiate a conversation. I don’t want to put her in the position of having to wonder about my intentions. If she wants to make idle chit-chat, I’ll leave that up to her. So other than an initial “hi” or something, I’ll generally stay quiet. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/77 "2018-12-06T16:04:06Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Even if the conversation is totally non-sexual, there’s always the possibility of misunderstanding of why I may be talking to her in the first place. Asking about work, the weekend, TV shows, etc. can be both random small talk and also be trying to lay the groundwork for more indepth conversations as part of a come on. She may be wondering as to my motivations for talking to her in the first place. It’s not like I’m making inappropriate comments like she has a nice haircut and stuff like that. > > Another example might be waiting in a long line. I can chat with another guy about how the line is so long, it’s going so slow, etc. and neither of us is thinking that the other is trying to hook up. But a woman always has to wonder what the guy’s intentions are. She has to worry that if she’s too nice, the guy might take that as an invitation and become a creepy stalker. If you are talking to a guy, he may think that you are trying to become friends with him, that you want to get a beer and a pizza with him after work and watch the game. He may not actually like you very much, and is just responding to your chat out of politeness. You may see it as a way to pass the time without being bored, they may see it as you imposing on them to be social when they would rather just be in their own private thoughts. Do you ever consider that the guy that you are chatting up may be uncomfortable with you? Why not? You should consider it, it is a very real possibility. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/78 "2018-12-06T16:05:24Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > My point is that unless there’s some compelling reason for me to talk to her, there’s no need for me to initiate a conversation. I don’t want to put her in the position of having to wonder about my intentions. If she wants to make idle chit-chat, I’ll leave that up to her. So other than an initial “hi” or something, I’ll generally stay quiet. So that’s fine. No problem here. I’m not sure, then, what you’re worried about. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/79 "2018-12-06T16:58:52Z")
A guy can go to a party and make an ass of himself. Each new “accusation” is more ridiculous than the last. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400/80 "2018-12-06T17:34:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Do you ever consider that the guy that you are chatting up may be uncomfortable with you? Why not? You should consider it, it is a very real possibility. This. I hate when strange guys just start talking to me about stuff. Usually sports. Just leave me alone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/neil-degrasse-tyson-accused-of-assaulting-women/825400.md?page=5)